I have provided biblical references that Jesus of Nazareth is not just a man born from a man’s seed, but from the seed of the Holy Spirit therefore God in human form. I have now decided to research evidence outside of the Bible. Evidence that comes from worldly or secular historical references as to what was being said about the first century (primitive) Christians, that they not only practiced the teaching of Jesus, but worship him as God.
I found a number of historical references, but the follow one is what stood out to be the most clear and straight forward reference. What makes this reference stand out the most is from who it comes from and to whom it is being sent to. The following is an excerpt from Pliny the Younger who was governor of Pontus/Bithynia from 111-113 AD an area that is now northwestern Turkey. He wrote many letters to his good friend the Trajan, Emperor of Roman.
One of the issues Pliny had to deal with concerned what to do with the Christians; there was a large amount of Christians in the province where Pliny had been sent to govern. Pliny reported to Trajan that Christianity had not only affected the cities in his jurisdiction but also the surrounding country side and villages. One of the results of the spread of Christianity in this region was that the area had received some economic loss because so many had become Christians and were not buying sacrifices to offer to the gods.
The teachings of the first century (primitive) Christianity were that there was no other God except Christos and that Christians were not to worship any other gods. Their refusal to accept the ancient Roman religion and worship the gods of the state was seen as treason in the Roman world. This was the basis for most of the persecutions against the Christians. Christians denied the existence of the states gods and refused to worship the gods of the Roman pantheon, which lead them to be seen as atheists on the eyes of Roman law.
“Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished.”
Complaints were laid against some Christians that resulted in arrest and being sent before Pliny to be examined; those that refused to “repent” and accept the states gods and religion were executed, because Pliny thought that just their mere stubbornness concerning Christianity and the state religion deserved some sort of punishment. Pliny goes on to state that:
“They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food.”
The highlighted statement above is the amazing point found within Pliny’s letter to the emperor of Roman. The first century, primitive Christians were not being punished by death because of their Christian practices of meeting for worship and partaking of the Lord’s Supper on a fixed day of the week.
They were persecuted because they worshiped Jesus as God and refused to worship the official gods of the Roman Empire a crime punishable by death.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)


Well Christopher, I'm glad you are finally here.
ReplyDeleteI sent you a couple of e-mails and had no answer.
Please check some of the comments here:
http://thetruthaboutlldm.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-is-christian-doctrine-of-salvation.html
Also, I would like to see your answer to this verse, because Jesus must have a God:
Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Furthermore, notice the fact that it is written:
ReplyDelete"to Christ as to a god," and not to Christ our God.
We indeed worship Christ as God because we have to do it as if we worshiped God. It is the same as in the old testament pharaoh gave authority to Joseph and told people to bow before him as they would before himself.
From the stand point at the time that this letter was written Romans did not use the the "G" for god because they worship many gods and not just one God. So Phliny nor any other Roman would never think of using the capital "G". What is important is that he reported that the Christian's worshiped the name of Jesus as a god and not a man.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of God or god, it still clearly says that they did worshiped him as God. In no way it implies that Jesus is god himself, but only that we worship him as God. I can honor you as Father, but it doesn't mean that you are my father. There are countless verses that confirm that Jesus is not God himself, but is given all the authority of God.
ReplyDeletePlease do not forget to answer Ephesians 1:17
Dear Nik -
ReplyDeleteWould you mind informing me as to what you have been taught and what you personally think about the verses from the Gospel of John chapter 1: 1-2 & 14.
v. 1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning."
v.14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
As for Ephesians 1:17 we would have to talk about the three aspects of God the Trinity of the Holy Father, the Holy Son and the Holy Spirit. Which in brief is support by the verses in Hebrews 1:1-4:
"1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."
The "Majesty in heaven" is the Holy Father.
And no I am not and never have been Catholic.
The teaching of trinity says God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit and that all of them are the same God. So, if son is God, how can he have a God in Ephesians 1:17?
ReplyDeleteConcerning John 1, I was never taught anything, but have come to my own understanding. It all revolves around the idea that Jesus is the word, but he is not and here he clearly states it:
John 14:24
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Continuing to the part that say the word became flesh, it means materialized. What is the word of God? It is all that we heard from God including his commandments which we never fully followed until Jesus. He was the first and the only one to follow the commandments completely. So, for the first and only time the word of God became flesh in the works of Jesus and we saw glory of it. For God could never become flesh in the form of man or any other living thing just like Paul said in Romans 1:23
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Please notice that the glory of God is uncorruptible and not like corruptible flesh of man. It is an abomination for God to appear in a corruptible form of a man or anything material. That is why it is very important not to make a mistake and call God what he hates to be associated with.
Nik,
ReplyDeleteYou are right in that God can not dwell within a man who is corrupted by sin and make the perfect sacrifice for the sin of Adam.
This is why God-The Word- made himself flesh as Jesus born from the virgin Mary, because the sin of man is past down from the seed, and the seed does not come from women. The flesh of Jesus was fathered by God's Holy Spirit and therefore He is the only human to be born sinless!
This is why Satan thought that he had beaten the Father. Satan thought once man was corrupted by sin that all of mankind forever would be corrupted as Adam's seed was pasted down to all generation of mankind and therefore man would never able to be close to God again.
Satan never in his wildest dreams could have known that God by way of His Holy Spirit could father a human man (Jesus) in whom the perfect sacrifice on the cross would be made to atone for the sin of Adam. Amen
I'm sorry, but to make your words credible, you have to show that Jesus is the WORD.
ReplyDeleteTo show it even more, I will use a verse that is often used to suppord the teaching of trinity.
Please read well and not only 7 but 8 as well; then, tell me please who it talks about in verse 8?
1John:
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Furthermore, corruptible doesn't only imply sinful but also perisheble, mortal, not permanent. Otherwise why whould Paul mention: beasts, birds, creeping things? All of them cannot sin, but still corruptible.
gabriel
ReplyDeleteJesus is not God, Christ is a creation of God! God cannot be tempted yet Jesus Christ was Tempted! Christ was the Son of God! he was THE WORD made flesh! the word was spoken by the prophets before christ was on earth! the word was with God and then the time came that THE WORD was made flesh!
colossians 1:15-19
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
BY HIM were all things created! God created everything by his Word! BY THE WORD of God were all things created! also Christ is the first of Many brethren! he is the first to resurrect from the dead but so will we when the day comes! he is not ashamed to call us brothers
hebrew 2:9-18
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
God is God and Jesus is Jesus! Jesus is the first of many Sons of God! as it stated in hebrews 2:18 he suffered being tempted! God cannot be tempted!!
james 1:13
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
gabriel