February 6, 2012

Follow Up Comments about the Bible, and Salvation Before The Crucifixion of Christ Jesus

Regarding the Bible it is important to understand that it is not the paper, binding, and ink that are "sacred" or "holy." It is the Living “Word” of God that is holy, not the material it is printed on, we are not to worship or idolize the Bible. The purpose of the Bible is to teach us about Jesus the Savior and the salvation He provides and to point us to worship Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. The paper and ink of a Bible are merely the means through which God communicates His Word to us. Just as with a government’s constitution conveys the will of its people in words on paper and if a printed copy of the constitution is destroyed, does not the will of the people still live on? Yes! The Lord Jesus brought through his Holy Spirit the living Word. His Will to all of mankind, and God uses His powerful living Word (Isaiah 55:11; Hebrews 4:12) to testify of Him from the pages of a Bible.

I respectfully disagree with the statement that the no one found salvation before the “Word became flesh” as Jesus. Let’s look at the example of Abraham. God offered salvation to Gentiles long before there were any descendants of Israel, and a man named Abraham is a prime example of a Gentile who received God's salvation. Abraham was not a Jew; neither was he a descendant of Israel. Rather he was Israel's (Jacob's) grandfather. Yet according to Genesis 15:16, God declared Abraham to be righteous (and one cannot be declared righteous if they have not already received salvation from the sin of man), because of his faith. Paul mentioned this fact about Abraham in his letters to the Romans and Galatians as he argued that salvation is offered now to both Jews and Gentiles by faith (see Rom. 4:3; Gal. 3:6). If Abraham---who appears early in Genesis and who lived hundreds of years before the giving of the Law of Moses, ---was declared righteous by God, this proves that Gentiles could be forgiven and declared righteous by God long before Jesus was born.

Another example of this comes from Jesus himself. Jesus once told a repentant woman that her sins had been forgiven, and He then told her that her faith had saved her (Luke 7:48-50). She was forgiven; thus she was saved. And obviously, she was saved before Jesus died. If she died in a forgiven state, then God did not revoke His forgiveness when she stood before His throne of judgment. She inherited eternal life.
So how is it possible for someone to receive salvation from their sin and become righteous before Jesus paid the price for sin on the cross? The answer to that question is simple since God and the Word are in all places, and in all times since the beginning of time.

This is what is so amazing; the Word in the flesh- Jesus- had already paid the price on the cross since the beginning of creation!

So in other words we as humans who live on the time-line of moment to moment since the creation of Adam have been able to receive salvation from God for the forgiveness of sin by faith in Him- The Word, because God is the Word (John 1: 1-2,14), and since the Word became flesh and Word is in all moments of time at the same time, the perfect sacrifice that the Word made as Jesus on the cross was already done!

The Word is God. God is the Word. For the Word what is going to happen has already happened, and is happening, this how His Word as found in pages of His inspired testimony, the Bible, is still the way for salvation unto righteousness.

I leave you with this final thought as found in Paul’s letter to Timothy. (2 Timothy, Chapter 3:14-17)

14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

When Paul says “Holy Scriptures” he is talking about the Old Testament.

God's blessing thru our Lord Christ Jesus by the power of His Holy Spirit.


  1. No man can obtain salvation through the following the of the law, however there were some men that were saved not through the law, but by the mercy of God.

  2. Gabriel

    to Christopher

    you say Christ payed for our sins since before creation? where in the bible does it say that? plz give me book, chapter and verse...


    1. there is absolutely no where in the Bible that says that before the creation, that Jesus paid for our sins!...No where in the Bible doe it say that!!!!

  3. Gabriel

    to anyone curious

    if you want to know about lldm then i suggest you go personally to the temples of lldm and talk to the ministers and not visit a blog online! if there are any question about lldm then at the very least ask a member! i am a member of lldm and can answer questions but do not ask people who do not belong to the church to begin with. that does not make sense!


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  7. A video on youtube shows where the pastor Guillermo Victorin of lldm claims that Samuel Joaquin is the mighty God of Isaiah 9:6. any lldm member care to explain what he meant?

    1. What you hear in the video is exactly what they mean! They consider Samuel as God!
      However, since the astute founder of LLDM (Eusebio Joaquin)began to preach to gather followers, LLDM has never put their real beliefs in writing precisely for not being accountable or under serious scrutiny.
      There is no actual authority in matters of defining LLDM's doctrine, not even the actual leader assumes the position of authority he demands to have finishing the never ending controversies in matters of doctrine. Every pastor preaches what they see fit their agendas. But they are extra careful in the promotion of the doctrine of "apostolic election" or "apostolic authority" which supposedly resides only in Samuel Joaquin.
      I have found some members to be more knowledgeable on Christianity than the pastors in La Luz del Mundo.

    2. hello! thank you for your answer. to be honest i am a member of lldm and have noticed things that are...off! pastors always dodge the question on whether they are the "restoration" or "resurgence" of the primitive church! they claim to be the restoration but restoration means "The process of repairing or renovating a building, work of art, etc., so as to restore it to its original condition." the church cannot be restores since it is not broken and Christ said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. so i believe that lldm changed the word to "resurgence" to fix this problem, however that is not in scripture so lldm cannot show where the bible sais they are the "resurgence"

    3. Acts 1:6-7, "Lord are you at this time going to restore the Kingdom of Israel?" He said to them, "it is not for you to know the times or dates the father has set by his own authority."

    4. We do not consider the Apostle Samuel God. Did you know that Jesus was an Apostle? Yes, he was and is the Apostle of God. In the beginning God gave Jesus 12 Apostles, called Apostles of Jesus Christ and they obeyed and followed Jesus Christ the Lord because God gave Jesus all of his power. Now what Guillermo Victorin means, is that when there is an Apostle of Jesus sent to his people, the grace of God is on the earth, and therefore, amongst the people.

    5. to Job

      no that is not what Guillermo Victorin meant! he used a prophecy for Christ! isaiah 9:6 is not about Samuel!! and about the "restoration" that is not about LLDM. it is in the verse you put "KINGDOM OF ISRAEL". I have one other question! Does Samuel Joaquin have ALL of God's authority??

    6. Just to clarify what LLDM teaches and not based on one sample, watch this: El Apostol de la Iglesia El Buen Pastor respuesta Carlos A. Montemayor on YT.

      If you think that "The kingdom of Israel" is land then you are wrong. The Kingdom of Israel are the people God has chosen. Keep in mind that when Jesus came he tried to preach to the Jewish who rejected him, and ended up preaching to the gentiles instead.

      No God does and still has Dominion and reigns over everything. He gave Jesus his power over heaven and earth pretty much leaving him in charge over the salvation of mankind. In John 17 when Jesus converts his disciples to Apostles he clearly states, "the glory which you have given me, I have given them."

  8. on top of the restoration dilemma LLDM teaches that Samuel Joaquin can never sin!! that to me is a sign of a cult! i would be more than happy to hear otherwise from any lldm member

  9. Guillermo Victorin's words


    the response from the church members was "AMEN"

    Guillermo Victorin's words in english


    after he sais this he states that "it will be a bomb that will go off" he knows what he said was wrong and sais it will be like a bomb!!!! how can you defend that??? how can you say "well what he really meant was that where there is a servant of God that is where God's grace is"....really??

  10. A. God was with Moses B. God sent Moses to liberate his people. Therefore, as long as Moses was with Israel God was with Israel.

    1. OK??? does that answer any of the questions i laid out?? we can talk about Moses if you want, but that would be changing the subject!

  11. to job

    Does Samuel have ALL of God's authority? and can he sin?? can you answer these?

  12. I can but I'm curious, why are you so interested? Who are you?? The reason I ask this is because even if I showed you with verses and texts by the hardness of your heart (incredulous) you will not understand. You see, this is what this verse means John 3:11. You see even the Lord Jesus tried and tried to explain so much that he even spoke to them in analogies and parables, to people of "the book." Keep in mind, Jesus never said "I will send a book and you will be saved by this book."

  13. i am interested because my family is in lldm and some are quick to judge anyone who has any questions. Al they say is "no es licito dar las perlas a los puercos" why the heck would any religious person say that??? the arrogance in lldm is so overwhelming! Jesus would speak in parables but why would you do that? if someone asks a question do you answer them indirectly? Jesus never said he would send a book but he never mentions the "Eleccion" either does he?

    LLDM claims Samuel Joaquin has the authority of God. to me that is a sensitive subject and must be carefully analyzed. you call me "incredulous" i call it being astute! let me ask you this...when you purchase a house do you blindly buy it no questions asked? no, you check the foundation, have a walk through, look at the surrounding neighborhood and ask all the questions you can! why is it bad to ask questions to the people that say they know the mind of God? they know their way of life is the one that leads you to heaven! pretty big claim! you expect me to keep my questions to myself and just follow blindly?? that will not happen with me.

  14. I'm really sorry to hear what you have to say about your family but they are right. There is a common misconception that EVERYONE is a child of God, but this is not true, everyone is a CREATION of God. I would like to discuss with you about the Election of God but in the proper forum. Not because I think you are seeking salvation or because I think you are seeking answer that will satisfy your criteria but mostly because I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry that your family is LLDM and you are not and that I find you this way in this forum where, I assure you, is entirely inaccurate. Chris Tarrant does not know the Doctrine of LLDM. Look at the responses from some of the brothers, you will find they are all quite contrary to what the LLDM response is. If you want to learn with verses from the bible (because they are so many) you email me here: younghov87@yahoo.com. If not I recommend you pray, repent, and leave it in the Lord's hands. You might find mercy from the Lord and all of the answers you seek. I also invite you to read my other posts. God bless you

    1. there is no reason for you to feel sorry for me. i get that a lot from the current people i know that go to lldm.

    2. Jose

      To anonymous from May 1

      These are two of your questions that you want to be answered.

      " Does Samuel have ALL of God's authority? and can he sin?? can you answer these?"

      Let me go threw your first question witch is "Does Samuel have all of gods authority."Well in order for me to answer this question I have to present you with biblical examples,and facts. In the book of John chapter 17 there's many examples not only in this chapter but threw out the hole book in context.But let's take a look at

      "You gave him authority over everyone so that he could give eternal life to everyone you gave him. This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. Now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I shared with you before the world was created. (John 17:2-5 CEB)

      Threw out the hole bible from the book of Genesis--apocalypse, from Aaron- John the apostle, they've had the authority of god... So to answer your question, yes the apostle Samuel has the authority of god threw Jesus the Christ, BUT ONLY THREW THE WILL OF GOD..... When I say "WILL" I mean only to what The Lord inspires him to do, accomplish(ex. Moses doing great things for the Israelites, the water turning into blood, Moses taking the Israelites out of Egypt.) As you can see the apostles and the prophets have the authority of god, but only to do his WILL.Im going to answer your second question after you post a comment on your opinion of what I posted in regards to your first question.. I will keep checking for your answer... God bless you....

  15. hello Jose

    i see what you are trying to say however if Samuel has ALL of God's authority then is worshiping him allowed? if you cannot worship him then he does not have complete authority. second Can Samuel sin?

  16. Jose

    Samuel does have the authority of god.... But let's look at the book of Exodus to see how much authority can a man of God have....

    You must have no other gods before me. Do not make an idol for yourself—no form whatsoever—of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. Do not bow down to them or worship them, because I, the Lord your God, am a passionate God. I punish children for their parents’ sins even to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me. Remember the Sabbath day and treat it as holy. (Exodus 20:3-5, 8 CEB)

    In the 10 commandments it says not to worship any thing that is not GOD, because he is a jealous god... Therefore we do not worship Samuel the apostle. But let's take a look at another scripture...

    Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 KJV)

    This is very interesting because in the 10 commandments GOD clearly says not to worship or bow down to anything but God.. But in the book of Philippians it CLEARLY says " that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow". And worship him!!! No one is equal to god, not the son, nor the apostle..But god does give his authority to his profits and apostles threw Jesus Christ. God never contradicts him self because he is a perfect being.. He exalted the son and gave him authority like no other because he is. GOD, JEHOVAH, I AM. So I think what you try to mean by your question is Samuel god?? NO.. But he does have the authority of god???Yes...

  17. Jose

    Your second question is can Samuel sin? Anyone can sin, but does he sin, no .... Before I give and present you biblical facts I would like to ask u one simple question.....

    Can a MAN be perfect with out sinning??? Yes or no???

    After you answer this simple question I will answer yours... Trust I will answer it!!!!!! God bless u I will keep checking for your answer god bless

  18. to Jose

    a man can be perfect in his ways of searching for Christ but not perfect as in not being able to sin! Catholics believe the pope is incapable of sinning too. Samuel Joaquin is a sinner and has sinned before.

    1 John 1:10 "10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. "

    Saul Sinned, David Sinned, Solomon Sinned, Moses was almost killed by God, and even the Apostle Peter sinned. Peter sinned when he denied Christ and also he was worthy of being condemned!!

    1 Galatians 2:11 "11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

    in Spanish instead of "blamed it sais "condenar" or condemn

    So is Samuel higher than peter?? anyone that sais a human being is perfect WATCH OUT those are signs of a cult.

    i am using scripture to answer your questions but i am agnostic when it comes to God. i do not say there is absolutely no God like atheists do but also i believe nobody can KNOW 100% that there is a God!

    i will see what your answer is on this matter

  19. Jose

    Before I give you my response do you. Agree to your first question about the authority..?

    Your answer to my question was this.. That a man can be perfect in his ways when searching for Christ.... Yea but there is and was a perfect man that set an example on how to live, act, obey, and follow.. it is the exalted one my friend, JESUS THE CHRIST.. Jesus was a man on earth with god abiding in him.. So there has been and could be a man without sin.. In the case of Samuel he has not sinned ( when I say he has not sinned I mean after his calling and could be way before that)...

    Another question of yours was is Samuel higher than Peter? In the case of authority they are the same, none is greater than the other apostles because all of them only have one god, and that one god has all the authority to give and take, each one is given a task, and who appointed them to there individual task??? GOD....

    As the apostle Paul said in the book of Corinthians that he is not inferior to those super apostles..this is also a perfect example as well let's take a look

    After all, what is Apollos? What is Paul? They are servants who helped you to believe. Each one had a role given to them by the Lord: I planted, Apollos watered, but God made it grow. Because of this, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but the only one who is anything is God who makes it grow. The one who plants and the one who waters work together, but each one will receive their own reward for their own labor. We are God’s coworkers, and you are God’s field, God’s building. (1 Corinthians 3:5-9 CEB)

    So you are agnostic, but it is good that you read the bible... So just out of curiosity what are your beliefs in the creation of life...

  20. to Jose

    i do not believe in Adam and Eve since there is no evidence of that. I see evolution by natural selection as the explanation of where we come from as a species. it is the basis of biology.

    and about being perfect Jesus Christ himself said in the bible when they called him good

    luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

    was he lying, or mistaken?

    what i do not agree with is that you hold Samuel on a pedestal! The Catholics do the same with the pope. i can recall during the month of August ALL of lldm is obligated to go to Guadalajara! Samuel knows there is danger in Mexico so why would he make you and your family go knowing this??? is that not tempting God? and if you do not go then you are disobeying.
    am i right?

  21. Jose

    When Jesus said that the only good one is god, it's true, but Jesus didn't boast about him self, he always boasted very highly about his father..
    In the book of Hebrews it says..

    The Son is the light of God’s glory and the imprint of God’s being. He maintains everything with his powerful message. After he carried out the cleansing of people from their sins, he sat down at the right side of the highest majesty. And the Son became so much greater than the other messengers, such as angels, that he received a more important title than theirs. After all, when did God ever say to any of the angels: You are my Son. Today I have become your Father? Or, even, I will be his Father, and he will be my Son? But then, when he brought his firstborn into the world, he said, All of God’s angels must worship him. He talks about the angels: He’s the one who uses the spirits for his messengers and who uses flames of fire as ministers. But he says to his Son, God, your throne is forever and your kingdom’s scepter is a rod of justice. You loved righteousness and hated lawless behavior. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with oil instead of your companions. And he says, You, Lord, laid the earth’s foundations in the beginning, and the heavens are made by your hands. They will pass away, but you remain. They will all wear out like old clothes. (Hebrews 1:3-11 CEB)

    Continuing in the bottom

  22. The main verse I won't you to focus on is this..

    You loved righteousness and hated lawless behavior. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with oil instead of your companions

    Jesus loved and was righteousness, and hated lawless behavior,Jesus Christ died for the sins of humanity, and in the book of Matthew it says that he took away our diseases and our SINS.... He payed the ultimate price for our sins... That's why the father exalted him because he did not never,never sin... Another good text is when he was tested by the devil when he was fasting, but he did not fall or give him self into temptation, but he actually defeated the devil and DEATH IT'S SELF..

    Well we don't hold Samuel as a pedestal, our foundation is Jesus the Christ, what we do boast about is that there is an apostle in the face of the earth.. We talk about him so much because we want all humanity to know that there is a true apostle on earth..

    When it comes up to the holy super in August, Samuel last year did not obligate anyone to come, what he does is invites the hole church to go, those who are able to go, and have their legal documents. But those who don't go participate spiritually. We participate in the holy super..

    I received a tradition from the Lord, which I also handed on to you: on the night on which he was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took bread. After giving thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this to remember me." He did the same thing with the cup, after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Every time you drink it, do this to remember me." Every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you broadcast the death of the Lord until he comes. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26 CEB)

    Yes you are right about it being dangerous in Mexico.. But I wouldn't call it testing god, but rather being careful and putting our faith in god...We remember The Lord death that's why we go, so all humanity can see that there is a church that does the will of The Lord....

    Just to say if you really don't believe in god then you also don't believe that your body has a inner being which is your soul.. Because if you do believe in ghost, or that your body has a soul than I don't see how you don't believe that there is a god?

    So if you go by biology, than do you believe in evolution of Hume. Threw apes or primates.. The thing that bothers me about BIOLOGY, is that there always changing ideas and beliefs,, meaning that scientist would call something a theory, then later on change it after a series of test has been done because that is what a theory is, several test being done until it is proven a fact.. God bless.. I will check for your answer

  23. To Jose

    First off you have it wrong! in science a THEORY is something that has been tested over and over and over and has YET TO FAIL! do you believe in Gravity? that is also a THEORY! the earth orbiting the sun is also ANOTHER THEORY! the word theory in science is not the same definition of the word theory that we use that means "a guess" or "a hunch" and yes Scientist do change their minds when THE EVIDENCE calls for it! for example people once thought that the world was flat! we do not believe that now since the EVIDENCE has now shown us that the earth is an oblate spheroid and nothing will change that! Nobody will say that the earth is any other shape! it is a fact that it is round!

    humans evolve from the same common ancestor that other forms of primates evolved from. you can see it in animals like a bear and a dog. they are not the same type of animal, you do not say that a dog evolved from a bear, but if you trace their ancestry back they both evolved from a common ancestor, they both belong to the order Carnivora. It is the same with humans. all of this is evidence of evolution. if it were wrong the medicine and vaccines that we take would not work at all!

    evolution is also seen in organisms. whenever a new vaccine is needed to combat something like the flu it is because it EVOLVED! evolution is everywhere and for someone to say it is not true like Uziel Joaquin did August of 2010 then i wonder if they are honest at all! Even the Catholic church cannot deny evolution! the popes now see it is true! even though they tried to suppress science before. I take a lot of heat for going by what the evidence tells me from my family who is in LLDM and they basically laugh at science!

  24. Jose...

    That's exactly my point,, a theory is never a theory until they find out or other stuff is presented to the scientist.

    But I don't see how is it a laughing matter probably because its within your family...

    In regards to Uzial Juaquien he was saying that we do not come from apes, or primates... And I agree

    My question to you is this, if we do come from primates, how come apes stopped evolving into humans.... Also have we reached our final stage of evolution or do you think we will evolve into something else....
    I mean physically evolution...

    So in regards to the questions you have about Samuel sinning, or authority do you have a responds or did you end to a conclusion that you agree or disagree
    I will wait for your response..

  25. To Jose

    Uziel Joaquin was wrong, we ARE primates!

    everything in this world is still evolving and will continue to evolve!

    about samuel joaquin sinning, if you are a religious person then he is a sinner. the prophets and apostles of old all sinned, so what makes samuel any different?

  26. Jose

    You said that all the old apostles sinned.. That's is very true my dear friend because every one has sinned and has fallen short before god...lets take a look at the apostle Paul.. In the book of acts it gives us the biography of the apostle Paul.. From what the bible says he used to chase down the church but was in fact present when he was younger to see The Lord get hurt... But in one glorious day in the way to Damascus he was called by The Lord..

    During the journey, as he approached Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven encircled him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice asking him, "Saul, Saul, why are you harassing me?" Saul asked, "Who are you, Lord?" "I am Jesus, whom you are harassing," came the reply. "Now get up and enter the city. You will be told what you must do." (Acts of the Apostles 9:3-6 CEB)

    In the way to Damascus Paul saw a white light and the lords voice, which was his calling.. At this point he was instructed to enter the city.. At this point he was still a sinner and had sins against him.. But let's keep reading..

    You will be his witness to everyone concerning what you have seen and heard. What are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash away your sins as you call on his name.’ (Acts of the Apostles 22:15, 16 CEB)

    At this point Paul was baptized and had received the Holy Spirit according to acts 9 and acts22.. And if you read the passage I have above, Ananias said" get up be baptized and wash away your sins as you calling his name" Paul was baptized and his sins where washed away, at this point he is sinless, clean, pure, without sin, and holy.

  27. So what are we going to say? Should we continue sinning so grace will multiply? Absolutely not! All of us died to sin. How can we still live in it? Or don’t you know that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore, we were buried together with him through baptism into his death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too can walk in newness of life. If we were united together in a death like his, we will also be united together in a resurrection like his. This is what we know: the person that we used to be was crucified with him in order to get rid of the corpse that had been controlled by sin. That way we wouldn’t be slaves to sin anymore, because a person who has died has been freed from sin’s power. But if we died with Christ, we have faith that we will also live with him. We know that Christ has been raised from the dead and he will never die again. Death no longer has power over him. He died to sin once and for all with his death, but he lives for God with his life. In the same way, you also should consider yourselves dead to sin but alive for God in Christ Jesus. So then, don’t let sin rule your body, so that you do what it wants. Don’t offer parts of your body to sin, to be used as weapons to do wrong. Instead, present yourselves to God as people who have been brought back to life from the dead, and offer all the parts of your body to God to be used as weapons to do right. Sin will have no power over you, because you aren’t under Law but under grace. So what? Should we sin because we aren’t under Law but under grace? Absolutely not! Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, that you are slaves of the one whom you obey? That’s true whether you serve as slaves of sin, which leads to death, or as slaves of the kind of obedience that leads to righteousness. But thank God that although you used to be slaves of sin, you gave wholehearted obedience to the teaching that was handed down to you, which provides a pattern. Now that you have been set free from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness. (I’m speaking with ordinary metaphors because of your limitations.) Once, you offered the parts of your body to be used as slaves to impurity and to lawless behavior that leads to still more lawless behavior. Now, you should present the parts of your body as slaves to righteousness, which makes your lives holy. When you were slaves of sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What consequences did you get from doing things that you are now ashamed of? The outcome of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and become slaves to God, you have the consequence of a holy life, and the outcome is eternal life. The wages that sin pays are death, but God’s gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:1-23 CEB)

    Once one is baptized, we are free from sin, our old being is put to death, and when we submerge we should be, and act like Christ, sinless... So as you see my friend, one can be sinless... Just to make my self clear, just because someone gets baptized doesn't mean they can't sin no more.. They can but it is up to themselves to act accordingly to gods will so they won't sin...

  28. This is another passage I won't you to read.. It is the apostle Paul defense...

    So a person should think about us this way—as servants of Christ and managers of God’s secrets. In this kind of situation, what is expected of a manager is that they prove to be faithful. I couldn’t care less if I’m judged by you or by any human court; I don’t even judge myself. I’m not aware of anything against me, but that doesn’t make me innocent, because the Lord is the one who judges me. So don’t judge anything before the right time—wait until the Lord comes. He will bring things that are hidden in the dark to light, and he will make people’s motivations public. Then there will be recognition for each person from God. Brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit. I’ve done this so that you can learn what it means not to go beyond what has been written and so none of you will become arrogant by supporting one of us against the other. Who says that you are better than anyone else? What do you have that you didn’t receive? And if you received it, then why are you bragging as if you didn’t receive it? You’ve been filled already! You’ve become rich already! You rule like kings without us! I wish you did rule so that we could be kings with you! I suppose that God has shown that we apostles are at the end of the line. We are like prisoners sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle in the world, both to angels and to humans. We are fools for Christ, but you are wise through Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, but we are dishonored! Up to this very moment we are hungry, thirsty, wearing rags, abused, and homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are insulted, we respond with a blessing; when we are harassed, we put up with it; when our reputation is attacked, we are encouraging. We have become the scum of the earth, the waste that runs off everything, up to the present time. I’m not writing these things to make you ashamed but to warn you, since you are my loved children. You may have ten thousand mentors in Christ, but you don’t have many fathers. I gave birth to you in Christ Jesus through the gospel, so I encourage you to follow my example. (1 Corinthians 4:1-16 CEB)

    The apostle Paul put up with lots of situations, and in this chapter he said that he put up with the insults, harassment's, and return there response with a blessing.. As the Paul said, they are managers of Christ, they have to show, and prove that they are faithful, and how can one be faithful, by not sinning which is doing gods will...

    I'm sorry but regarding evolution and that we come from apes, I don't believe... Because if it was so, than we should still see these types of evolution at this present time... It's been over 2000 years and no evolution has been introduced or brought to light.. In history books, all the pictures and the descriptions of people are still the same.. Back then they looked like use and we look like them.. What I do agree on is that our brain evolves, and we get smarter And smarter mentally threw out the years... God bless I will look for your response...

  29. To Jose

    Evolution is a fact whether people believe it or not, it is like saying you do not believe the earth is round that does not change the fact that it is round! evolution takes MILLIONS of years to be seen! it does not happen over night! By the way how old do you think the earth is? i am curious...does LLDM have an opinion on that? i ask because if LLDM believes that the earth is 6000 years old then i DEFINITELY cannot go along with it.

    i see what you are saying about Samuel Joaquin and i will not debate it further because it is something you believe to be true in your heart. as long as it does not physically harm people who do not believe then it will be ok.

  30. Jose
    Well I've never heard anything about what lldm thinks about how old the world is...but I see where you get 6,000 according to the biblical timings...but my guess would be more than 6000 yrs...

    I respect that you don't wont to talk about authority, or sin..But just for a note, everyone had sinned but Christ, but after one converts, one can be without sin

  31. God gave the man science (Gen 3:5). God gave the man reasoning which no other beast possesses (Gen 2:9). You say we come from apes, but can you prove this? Show me the line of evolution from ape to man. God made the man similar to his image (the soul that is) to make God-like decisions, free-will. We, LLDM, believes that everything was made by the creators design, you see how different this is than Chris Tarrant's version? We take nothing out of context from the bible:

    "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end." (Ecclesiastes 3:11 KJV)

  32. Replies
    1. Dtp. The nerve of this ex-member CT to preach a gospel that is not of Christ, huh, and then lie about our church?? I wonder if he received the Holy Spirit while at LLDM. Regardless I'm sure he does the work of Satan now. Who would write so many bad things about a man who has done so much for so many lives, whether through the philanthropy or the Gospel; but they don't see that, they just see the Glory that is God-given and they envy. But hey, even Jesus had Judas. Remember what they used to say about The Lord? Needless to say these same type of men killed him. So much hatred in their hearts. We must pray for them. #GBY

    2. Shutup we all know ur just another ignorant cult member.

  33. Gen 3:5 talks about Eve eating the fruit. How does that relate to science?

    1. "Ye shall be as gods (that's a big AS) knowing 'good' and 'evil'" How astute of Satan, huh? To go against what God said. You see we possess the knowledge of good science and evil science. Knowledge is the keyword.

      Gen. 2:9 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

      Thank you for taking the time to read your bible. I give many references on this thread but some people just want to argue. You will find that LLDM has many beautiful teachings, and that none of them are taken out of context from the bible. Basically everything we do can be backed up from the bible contrary to what Chira Tarrant says. He really doesn't know the LLDM doctrine, which is sad because he is an ex member.

  34. Jesus is God in the flesh. That's who Jesus is.

    1. So when he prayed he prayed to himself?

    2. By the way, if he is God in the flesh, why does the scripture says that no man has ever seen God?

  35. He was showing us how to pray

  36. I bet you think Jesus is white too.

    1. Hahaha omg you're hilarious xD

    2. Hello.
      Peace of God be with you all.
      First of all nether theory of gravity nor theory of evolution is fact. Gravity, fossils, ext. are facts but theories that interpret them are not facts. Theory of evolution is science as it uses scientific method to interpret the facts. Theory of evolution doesn't even qualify as such.
      I'm looking ahead for a detailed explanation for anyone who is interested.
      God Bless you.

    3. I'm sorry, I meant to say that theory of gravity is science and not theory of evolution.

  37. anonymous from june 26 that said theory of evolution is not fact

    Wow i can tell you are not a scientist!!! geez at least make sure you get your facts down and do research before you say such nonsense!! why dont you tell that to your doctor when he gives you your next vaccine or medical prescription!!! you might not believe in evolution but it is true regardless! you benefit from science every time you go to the doctor! so i guess they are evil for studying science huh!

  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

  39. Please tell me what is "nonsense" out of what I said?
    I'd like to talk in detail using facts and not just scream nonsense! nonsense!
    And, not all are evil. Many are confused thinking that science is unbiased. On the contrary, every theory has to be looked at critically. It's finding double checked. It's experiments replicated and confirmed.
    Darwin on the other hand was clearly evil. His theory of evolution has roots in racism. Just remember how he came up with it. No, it were not those finches that he saw. It was about two aboriginal men that were with him. I would't even mention his perverted personal life.
    Let's have an educated debate with facts and not emotions.

    1. ok lets talk about facts then my friend! i would like you to CITE your sources about Darwin please and we will start from there!

    2. you say evolution has roots in racism huh? if you study evolution you will find that all humans came from Africa. we are all African if you think about it. educate yourself on science and evolution and you will see that you are wrong.

  40. to nik

    i also notice your usage on the word "theory"

    please define a scientific theory!

  41. it is also funny how in humans, sex and gender is determined by the MALE. the woman eggs contain only an X sex chromosome and the male sperm contain either an X or Y chromosome. the female only has the X chromosome and needs the male who has either another X for a female or a Y for a male child. to have a male baby you need an XY pair and the Y is only carried by the male! if the sperm determines the gender then here is a question for lldm! how was Jesus a Man?? there was no sperm involved and therefore it is impossible for him to be a Man! again this is another fact....what will you say? that chromosomes are wrong and that the belief that males determine sex is a "theory"?

    1. God made the rules"laws of nature"; and so if he wants, he can bend them. It is called a MIRACLE.

    2. first give me the proof that he mad the laws of nature! where is your evidence my friend?

    3. I can not come up with a proof that he did, and you certainly cannot proof that he didn't.
      There is no way to proof where the laws of nature came from and whether they always existed.
      It is a question of faith.
      I do not need proof to believe.
      And I will tell you that I was a fervent atheist not so many years ago; but now, I'm a believer.

  42. It has its roots in racism because darwin saw that those natives who were brought from terra del huego with the first expedition turned back into savages... it really doesnt matter that according to this theory we came from africa. What it impies is that europeans are further evolved and thus more superior.
    As to the difinotion of the scientific theory, there has to be set up an experiment to veryfie hypothesis. Please tell me what kind of experiment verifies evolution?

    1. if you have found an error in the theory of evolution PLEASE inform the Scientific community because you will become a MILLIONAIRE! Scientist love it when you find errors in their work because it means progress for the scientific community! you see evolution everywhere. furthermore a Scientific Theory is something that has been Tested over and over and put through the Scientific Method and has Yet to fail! the theory of evolution has been rigorously tested and so far has not failed! a Scientific theory is also used to PREDICT phenomena! for example...you see it in the vaccines we take for influenza! the bird flue was an evolved form of influenza! therefore we use the theory of evolution to come up with new vaccines to combat these infectious diseases. these are just examples of micro organisms evolving but also there are some traces of evidence that we evolved. look at our jaw. our teeth do not fit perfectly in our mouth...some design by God huh...the reason is that our primate species has been evolving over thousands of years! our eyes are way underdeveloped! the bee can see ultraviolet rays while we cant! some design huh! you want God to take credit for our poorly designed species??

  43. About your continued accusations on Darwin you have yet to cite any source telling people where you found your info. Read his books. Some of his quotes seem to go against slavery. Darwin was also considered an Abolitionist in his time. either way the theory of evolution states we ALL CAME FROM A COMMON ANCESTOR (yes all of us: blacks, white etc.) also DARWIN DID MISSIONARY WORK IN TIERRA DEL FUEGANS. your mind has been so warped by creationist websites or other creationist nonsense.

    You forget that THE BIBLE is the reason people accepted slavery! The BIBLE supports it! I do not hear you say that the BIBLE IS RACIST!

    Exodus 21:20 states if you beat your slave and he dies the the owner will be punished yet a verse later states if he can get up a day or two later then that is perfectly fine because the slave is his money and property!

    Numbers 31:18 (one of my personal favorites) Moses tells the people of Israel to kill all Midianites! kill the men and women that hare not virgins BUT KEEP ALL THE VIRGIN WOMEN FOR YOURSELVES! God does not state why he wants the people to keep the young virgins but i will leave that up for you to figure out!

    why do you feel that you have the right to criticize Darwin when your GOD has done worse! what is your excuse for him????

    1. You are talking about mutations and it is way different from evolution. Also, one thing to consider. Evolution theory is based on natural selection as a force that drives it. Please tell me what are the most successful organism on earth? No doubt it is viruses and bacteria. What than advantage would have an organism that reproduces sexually have if it would appear among bacteria? It's disadvantage is reproduction would have put it on a path of elimination.

      Also, please answer if evolution is an ongoing process, why that are so many leaving fossils?
      Why did they evolve for millions of years and than suddenly stopped and remained the same?

      Experiments with fruit flies and other fast reproducing organisms show that no matter what you do with them(radiation, chemicals, ext) to induce mutations, they will never turn into another specie. So, where is an experiment that proves evolution?

      Thousands of years of purposeful breading of dogs show the power of mutation, however all of them can interbreed including their ancestor wolf.

      What can we prove? Mutations? Yes.
      Evolution??? Were is even one experiment that can prove it.

  44. Concerning the citation about Darwin, I must say that I couldn't find it yet. It was in one of the documentaries about Darwin.

  45. About the bible and slavery, it is not racially based. Also, not all that Moses said is the word of God. One example would be concerning divorces. Jesus then explained why Moses did so. I'm not trying to say that it is not the commandment of God, but that we do not know.

  46. that so? then your explanation is mutation? you really need to grab a biology book and look up the difference between mutation and evolution! mutation is, in its most basic explanation, an error or a change that occurred in the DNA sequence of a gene. you mean to tell me humans and other species mutate? wow some lousy design by God allowing us to have errors in our genes! Mutation leads to evolution! the best explanation for our existence is Evolution by natural selection and mutation! look at our appendix it is not in use by our bodies today! it has lost all of its original function!

    scientist are in agreement about evolution you mean to tell me they are all conspiring against God?? unlike LLDM scientist are open to criticism, if you found something that is wrong about evolution please let the entire scientific community know! you will not though because your logic is faulty!
    oh and BTW you will not cite a single source on the info about Darwin because you do not have any!! simple as that!

    i love how you said:

    "About the bible and slavery, it is not racially based. Also, not all that Moses said is the word of God."

    You said a mouthful!!
    you mean to tell me a God that commands the murder of people that are not "Jews" is not racially motivated???

    Are you an LLDM member? if you are how can you possibly say Moses was not a man of God? or that what he said was not God's word? everything a "man of God" sais is infallible.

    which brings up a question i would like you to answer

    If you bring up the part where Jesus states that Moses signed a letter of divorce but that God in the beginning made "one man and one woman"

    why then did Solomon have hundreds of wives?? why did David have several women too?? if you look at these people they all seem to not care what God's law stated. what is your explanation on that?

    i apologize but these "divine" texts has man made written all over it!

  47. by the way a mutation is a single change in the dna sequence of a gene and several mutations over millions of years (not in a day like some religious people want scientist to show)will eventually lead to the change in that species!

    you are one step closer in believing in evolution if you believe in mutation! that is a little relieving for me to be honest!

  48. and about the bacteria and viruses it is curious you should bring those up. it is funny how in biblical times leprosy was a curse from God. back then we did not know that there were microorganisms that we had no control over. when people would get sick they would say it was a curse from a deity or from a god that was punishing them for their sins. now that science has QUESTIONED and investigated the matter cults like the catholic church cannot deny that what was once thought of before as "demon possession" is now called epilepsy! although there are a few smaller versions of the catholic church (LLDM) that still will not get over their fanaticism.

    well...there are some circumstances where LLDM will conveniently agree with science, for example when it comes to the health of SAMUEL then LLDM will agree with everything! even sending him to HOUSTON(where the largest medical center is located! of course it makes sense that SCIENCE takes care of an illness! why not just pray???

    People love the results science gives them: computers, cars, air conditioning, anesthesia, vaccines, medicines, etc However people hate the questions science asks to get those results!

  49. now the proof of evolution is in the fossils! different animals have the same bone structures! also look at the DNA with humans and chimpanzees. our DNA is approximately 1 percent different!!! what more do you want?

  50. David took many wifes because it was comon all around that part of the world. He wanted take many wifes and he took them. Why god did not rebuke him, is jot for us to know; but, god certainly did not comand any of that.
    As I said not every word out of a man of god is gods word.
    You still did not address most of the points about evolution that I brought up. Fossils are not an experiment that proofs evolution.
    Science with it's progress is a benifit that we have but as anything in this world it can be missused to cause harm.
    If you still believe in evolution, it means that you are part of nature and not above it. Your existance is equal to the existance of any leaving organism. Why then killing a fly is normal, and killing a human is mirder?

  51. i have told you what to look for in evolution! why do we humans share the same bone structures as other different animals! we are all distant cousins! if you choose not to see reality it is fine! it is happening whether or not you believe in it!

    what a perfectly convenient way for you to get out of the question as to why Solomon and David had many wives! your only answer was:

    "It was common all around the part of the world"

    Wow, are you serious? and you do not see anything wrong with following the world's customs? LLDM talks about it all the time and rebukes the world but when it comes to answering a question that clearly exposes the bible you say:

    "why God did not rebuke him is not for us to know"

    God even told David when he murdered a man to take his wife that he would have given him any woman he desired.
    you just refuse to see reason. i cannot debate someone who refuses to see the evidence of science! it is impossible!

    changing a person's mind is futile if the person refuses to use it!

    1. To have similar anatomy may point to evolution.
      It can also point to common designer.
      This poin can be used just as well on both sides of the argument.

      Please give the verse so I can explain it to you.

      I'm ver reasonable person and can easily change my mind with the right argument, which I have not seen yet.

  52. furthermore if you are seriously going to argue even after i told you that our DNA is only about 1 percent different from a chimpanzee then this conversation is over...DNA is the blueprint that makes up your entire self! some people really will try to debate it even though DNA evidence is not wrong!

    1. Many animals have dna that is very similart to ours, but 1% is a huge difference. And, just like with other similarities it can as well point to common designer and try to prove it otherwise.

  53. Also what is the point of calling anyone the "man of God" if not everything he sais is the word of God?

    1. Where did you get an idea that if one is a man of god that every word that that he says must be gods word?

  54. by the way saying i cannot prove God DIDNT come up with the rules of nature or that i cannot prove God DOES NOT exist is faulty logic!
    How can you prove something did not exist if there is ZERO evidence to work with?

    i will give you an example:

    lets say a man is being accused of a crime he did not commit and the man sais "there is no proof that i committed this crime!" that would be reasonable but what would the man do if the Judge tells him "yes i see that there is zero evidence that you did not commit the crime but now PROVE TO ME YOU DID NOT DO IT!" that is illogical!

    so you telling me that i cannot prove God DID NOT make the laws of nature is faulty logic!

    you are the one that sais you know that God exists and that you know the exact way to please him so the one that needs to do the proving is you!


    1. That is not what I said.
      What I tried to say that any argument conserning the laws of nature cannot be used to disproof the existance of god. Unless you have some concreate examples for me.

  55. what made you change your atheistic views if i may ask?

    1. There is not rational explanation. I guess god put a feeling in my heart that I need him. After my eyes were opened that science that I love so much did not actualy explained everything away. For example where did the life came from. Just cosider one thing. We not no every componenet that life exists and can recreate any condition in a lab and even with all of this knowlwdge and technology we still can not create life100% from inorganix matter.
      If we using all this knowledge and technology cannot do it, there is NO WAY THAT ANY NATURAL PROCESS COULD HAVE DONE IT.
      This is only one of , any examples that I discovered.

    2. science has already started creating synthetic life!! you are real behind

      computers will soon gain consciousness as well!

    3. That is not the point.
      The point is that if we with all of this technology cannot create a leaving organist 100% from inorganic molecules, the is no way any natural process can do that.

      And, I'm not behind. No leaving organist has been completely created from inorganic molecules.

  56. how do you then explain love, hate, forgiveness ect.. ? how does science explain this?

    1. Science will try to explain it away as mear chemical processes.

    2. and what do you use as an explanation NIK?

      you use a talking snake in a garden right!

    3. In my opinion all these feelings cause a chemical reactions that science can register.
      Scientists can see that when person has a feeling of love, there is a certain area of the brain more active and certain chemicals released. However, they can not proof whether it is these chemical reactions cause love and not love cause these chemical reactions. But, because science assumes that there is nothing of a spiritual nature, it right away puts aside any serious talk that love might cause all these reactions.
      This is a perfect point to show how biased science can be.

  57. you would be surprised how evolutionary psychology has contributed to this! for example male jealousy over females can be traced to our primate instincts. you should look into oxytocin and how that plays a role in our brain activity as well.

    you can contribute love and jealousy to God but that would be a little childish dont you think? why would jealousy come from a God? the bible sais he feels jealous but jealousy is a petty human emotion. why would a God get jealous?

    1. No surprice as many feelings bible explains as earthly.
      And, as I said earlier that any similarities cannot be used as an argument as both sides can argue the same argument.

  58. i will say this. science does not have all the answers! scientist fully accept the fact that not everything is known as of yet but they are working on the problem.

    question everything!

    that is how knowledge is gained! if a scientist sais something that you do not understand then question it and look into it! you cannot do that in religion and especially churchs like LLDM! questioning is forbidden and if you question their "Apostle" Samuel you are on your way to Hell for all of eternity!
    think about that...you will burn without mercy just because you asked questions. that is horrible and immoral

    the catholic church was the same way and now that the evidence is piling on every day they cannot deny it and what was before "heresy" is now used by the church as evidence to prove God!

  59. Not true.
    I have been asking questions eversince I entered there and got answer to every one of them. No one told me any of this nonesense.

  60. Wow! are are you really going to tell me that SAMUEL JOAQUIN can be questioned???

    are you serious??

    i was a member of LLDM for years i know what i am saying. you are not speaking with someone that is ignorant to the teachings of LLDM!
    i have read LLDM's history book as well. I know that Aaron split from the IGLESIA EVANGELICA CRISTIANA ESPIRITUAL!

    as a matter of fact your church copied them in the way the women dress!
    both men and women sit separately and the women wear the exact same head covering that the women from LLDM wear so in a way your church copied them.

    in 1942 there was a division by a group of ministers who formed
    la iglesia del dios vivo columna y apoyo de la verdad el buen pastor! and now they imitate your church.

    you may look down on science and even mock it saying

    "all of science's explanations are chemical"

    if that is what you want to do then fine!
    i will let you know that believing in a talking snake in a garden of Eden that fooled the entire human race is ridiculous and so is the thought that the stars formed words in the skies when aaron was called on the 6th of April 1926!

    LLDM always condemn and criticize all other religions mainly Catholics! but i will tell you that Catholics and other religions are not your problem!

    science is what religions fear and science will continue to grow and question religion!

    1. I originally came from Russian orthodox church so I had very different idea of what christianity suppose to be. That is why I always questioned every practice of of our church and got a clear answer to all questions.

      Give even one example when some one rebuked you for asking questions?

  61. 2 samuel 12:5-9

    "5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the Lord liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:

    6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.

    7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

    8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

    9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon."

    read verse 8! God himself told David he gave him wives unto his bosom...

    i thought Jesus said that in the beginning it was

    1 man and 1 woman

    why then would God let David have several women??

    what is you explanation?

  62. Nik you are saying that arguments i use for science can be used for both sides! no that is not true! you cannot say that faith based belief is the same as evidence based belief! you cannot prove God or any of the bible stories are true! so do not lump the two together.

    furthermore LLDM puts on an act to show they believe in science when they do not! Uzziel Joaquin said evolution and the big bang was false in 2010 so do not say you believe in science.

    in LLDM it used to be bad when you would go to the doctor and get looked at! you had to have the faith to go to church first! this was around Aaron's time.

    now that Samuel needs the doctor now it is magically ok for everyone to go! and now you say:

    "well science is the work of God"

    when it was not the case before! and by the way you asked where i got the idea that we cannot question a man of god?

    i got that from LLDM!
    it always surprises me how LLDM members lie on the internet! not one of the things you say is true!

    this is fact! i will ask you not to lie about your teachings! tell people the truth!

    if you still want to stick to the argument that you can question the "Apostle "then fine but if that is the case why do the ministers always say:


    in Spanish it translates to


    will you deny that ministers say this?

    1. Of coarse I can not show you a clear cut evidence that God exists. What I tried to say is that if you will argue that similarities among different species point to evolution and there eliminate the possibility of God. I will answer that it can also mean that there is a common designer, but because you already assumed that there is no God, you wouldn't even consider this possibility.

      As I said earlier not all science is bad. It is bad where certain atheistic individuals try to to push trough theories that lead people away from the lord. It mainly doesn't apply to medicine.

      I always questions all I wanted and this is truth. God is my witness that I'm not lying.
      Please give me an example.

  63. Both sides can argue the same thing? how can you say that? you do not even believe in evolution, the basis of biology.

    no you cannot argue with science! you never will be able to because what you have is faith, the belief in something without evidence!

    that is exactly the opposite of science!

  64. Many people believe in big bang which doesn't have any direct evidence supporting it. We observe red shift and some particles. That is all. But, many scientists imagine how small this dot was before the big bang. Reminds me of this fake story that scientists reconstructed a human ancestor only by one tooth. Not much different from a religious believe. At least Christ offers hope of salvation if you believe in him. What does ths scientific believe offers?

  65. actually if there is any science that is proven wrong it was discovered through questioning! people once thought the earth was flat! not anymore! through doubt and questioning we now know it is round!

    can you question the Noah's ark story?

    if you believe in evolution then how do you reconcile the adam and eve story? when did we receive a soul?

    the minsters rebuke members all the time from the pulpit! they say God cannot be questioned and since Samuel is the man of God he cannot be questioned either! surely you can admit that much!

    i have lived through it! uzziel even said it when talking about evolution!

    he said he does not know God's plans and God should not be questioned and neither should Samuel!


  66. I do not believe in evolution because it contradicts scripture.

    There was never a need for me directly question apostle as everything that I heard from him, I was shown in the bible. That is how I know he is a true servant of God.

    Please be specific about when did you need to question Samuel directly?

    1. You were only shown verses that they felt they could manipulate.. they didn't tell you read the whole Bible.. nope only show you parts.

  67. you cannot question him since he does not answer questions directly!

    when someone makes a claim like Samuel has it is only natural to question these people.

    you can say that science has errors and that would not be a dumb statement!

    the only difference is that i do not say you will go to hell and burn forever if you do not believe in evolution!

    you on the other hand believe i will burn if i refuse Samuel

    1. Jesus said very clearlty that the one who receives the one I send, receives me and who receives me , receives my father.
      So, Jesus himself said that if you want to receive him, you must receive his apostles. You can follow al the doctrine of christ, but if you refuse his apostle, you refuse him. If you still refuse the words in te bible, I cannot explain you anything else.

    2. Yes he was talking to the Apostles and 72 others! Plus this verse is not only for Samuel.. nor does it prove he is an Apostle

  68. for example one question i would love to ask Samuel would be this one...

    why is it bad to have a T.V in LLDM?

    a lot of people in LLDM do not know that Naason Joaquin said in August of the year 2011 that having T.V is on the same level of sin as being a drunkard or women not wearing skirts!

    Of course nobody listen since all the "casa pastorales" have T.Vs!

    and another question would be this...

    why do young women dance for you in your birthday parties? mainly young women.

  69. I have never heard that having a tv is evil. To preffer TV instead of church is evil. You probably just heard one phrase and jumped the gun with this claim.
    Besides the point, you still have not giving me an example when you questioned apostle in church and were rebuked. I'm waitimg.

    1. Why do you celebrate Samuels birthday like a big celebration.. yet you didn't celebrate Christmas? I know its not the accurate birthday for Jesus but at least we celebrate a day to remember him even more.. you probably will say that you celebrate him everyday... But in that case why not do the same for Samuel? Is his real birthday more important to lldm members that giving one day to celebrate a day for Jesus?

  70. you never heard the recording! it is online!

    you see this is why i do not believe LLDM they do not even know their teachings!

    you did not even answer why young women dance for Samuel!


    this link has the recording of naason on what LLDM believes about t.v.
    just scroll down to where there is a pic of naason and the audio is next to the pic.

  71. Listen to the recording! Naason clearly talks about OWNING a t.v and how it is a sin!

  72. and about questioning Samuel..

    i really do not know what ministers you are listening to! ALL OF THEM say from the pulpit that Samuel is INFALLIBLE!

  73. I will lsten and let you know.

    About women dancing for him, it is because they wanted to prepare some intertament for him. He has not asked for it.

  74. I will lsten and let you know.

    About women dancing for him, it is because they wanted to prepare some intertament for him. He has not asked for it.

  75. but why are they dressed indecent?

    here are some photos of how the young women dress for him!


    go to this website and scroll down to some pictures taken of these dancers

    notice the exposed flesh! do you think Jesus Christ would accept these young girls dancing for him dressed like this?

    1. As i said before, postle did not order them to be dressed like that. Most of these things are ogonized as a surprise for the servant of god. I know that once before a groop of sisters prepared a dance dressed like hawayan natives. He commented that he did not leke tham showing their abdomens. By the way that link is to the audio is dead.

  76. really the audio works just fine from my laptop!

    and you did not say that the "Apostle" Samuel did not like them dressing that way before....

    you said it was for entertainment, now that you saw the photos now you say the he SUPPOSEDLY said he did not like the way they were dressed!

    why hasn't he said it from the pulpit for the Ministers to STOP DRESSING THE YOUTH WOMEN IN COSTUMES!!!!

    a girl i knew last year was dressed as MARILYN MONROE!!

    why would they dress a young girl as Marilyn Monroe??? let alone for an "Apostle" ??

  77. To Anonymous: That's a large 1 percent, ey? Ok, fossils, show to me PROOF of the evolutionary bones where we came from chimps??? Please, provide this FACTUAL EVIDENCE Mr. scientist...

    1. of course you would say that! no we did not come from chimps
      we are not chimps and chimps are not us

      is that another lie Samuel told you??

      follow the chimps ancestors and follow ours and you will see that we have the same common ancestor it is in our DNA and it is in the Fossils look at them for yourself!

      Science is not like LLDM where it is "revealed to one man" you are free to see it for yourself! pretty cool huh!

      and by the way look at you, an LLDM member asking me for evidence!
      why don't you ask Samuel for evidence of a talking snake or of the ark where Noah fit the MILLIONS of the worlds animals into...you people from LLDM react so hostile to science because you know that when discussing with science you cannot deal with evidence that goes against your fairy tale

  78. NikCH86 I commend you for having patience with this alleged "christian", because if you noticed he disclosed "I know its not the accurate birthday for Jesus but at least we celebrate a day to remember him even more.." Meaning, this is someone who used to attend the house f God (but for some reason or another, God knows) no longer does. But the faith wasn't for him, as we know, God is the only one who deposits that faith. Think about it, this is someone who is publicly arguing against God's very existence. Yet, somehow (in his own way) celebrates Jesus' birthday, even though he knows it is inaccurate (which he probably learned at LLDM). Very astute wouldn't you say? Imagine this poor guy's soul, and his heart and the condition that he must find himself in to be so adamant about disproving God. We know who operates in him when the ONLY sources he's cited is the EXLLDM member webpage where he lives. This just proves to show how other religions claim to praise God, but like he said THEY DON'T KNOW HIM. WE DO. Such hatred and anger, I would say I would pray for him but apparently God has rejected him. And he has become an enemy against the very work of God... "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." (Romans 9:16 KJV).

    1. first off i am not the same anonymous that posted about Jesus's birthday

      second i did not post the site of exlldm because of the actual site, i wanted him to refute the recording!

      i will ask you then!

      is it a sin to own a tv in LLDM?

      by the way i thought being a christian was not judging people!

      Samuel has tought you well!

      instead of praying for "bad" people you get online to post on a blog (which Samuel sais you are not supposed to do) and condemn me!

      well done perfect example of a christian!

  79. i would not use something as weak as Christmas to discuss religion!

  80. learned that Christmas is inaccurate from LLDM?
    you do know that Christmas is originally pagan right? the tree represents a Phallic symbol so why did i learn it is bad from LLDM when you guys decorate the "apostle" samuel's ranches with these trees? c'mon i am agnostic and surely you must know this much but it would not surprise me if you did not know.

    i bet you did not even know the symbol of the Egyptian sun disk you have with a letter "S" in the middle for Samuel that you have in hermosa provincia?

    quick to point out other religion's mistakes but fail to see the mistakes in your own

  81. Yes, yes that's exactly what that sign means (sarcasm). Respect yourself mate, maybe then you will learn to respect others.

  82. Respect? ohhh like you hypocrites "respect" the catholic church?

    that is a funny request from a member of a religion that hangs signs during a papal visit to Mexico that reads "WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS WE ARE LA LUZ DEL MUNDO"

    you should go write more songs or prepare more of your youth to honor your "Apostle" with dances.

    i know you will not answer the questions posed to you about your fairy tales


  83. LOL la doctina Que nadir ha contestado! That's a good one! Hey if anyone is interested I found this person who also proves LLDM wrong doings on YOUTUBE look up mopar440hp he has several good points.

    1. that is what LLDM claims, that their doctrine is unchallengeable.

      and btw i believe mopar440hp challenged Carlos Montemayor from LLDM but Montemayor has claimed he has no interest in debating him.

      i do not see why since Carlos debates other religions and posts them on youtube.

    2. That's because like LLDM members, they can't answer logical questions. They tangle themselves in their doctrine. Did you see the video where they called SJF Dios Fuerte? Some strong statements there. Oh but now they say the video was edited lol. When my LLDM friend first saw it she said that I wouldn't be able to understand that video until I become part of their cult, the next day she said the video was a fake? They don't even know what to tell them anymore.

    3. that video has already taken 6 of my family members out of lldm! i know what video you are talking about and the minister, guillermo victorin, that made that dumb statement!

      there is a recording in


      where they call Samuel Joaquin "JESUS CHRIST MAN" if you go to an entry called

      "Samuel, el Dios de La luz del mundo"

      look for a recording and a minister sais it clearly! also if you look online they have a photo where the members hold up a sign that sais "WE LOVE YOU DADDY".

      Reminds me of Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda!

      the people from LLDM have tried to hack the site of Exlldm which goes to show they are worried about it! we need people to talk more about this church before they try to change street names in the U.S to the name of their leader!

    4. Correction the exlldm entry is under

      "Vicarios de Cristo, existen?"

      Scroll down under a pic of Samuel walking the pathway in his church in Guadalajara and the box is grey with a play button. you will hear it.

  84. Jose

    To: anonymous

    Is T.V bad??

    I was actually present in Guadalajara when the brother Nason was talking about the tv and Internet..I've also heard other pastors and deacons say the same..let me recap on what was actually said...

    The brothers did say that tv and the Internet was, and is a sin!! But how can it be a sin or an accessory to a sin? If you watch the weather on the Internet or on the tv is it a sin? No it is not a sin as long as you use it for good use like news reports, weather cooking channel, and etc... That's the real truth.. But how do these things become a sin ; by seeing pornoagrahy, inappropriate channels.. Lets be honest and modest, do all of us use the tv for only that use? Sadly no, but we do try to refrain our selfs from these types of things.. We are human and as long as we are human we have an enemy who is our very selfs the flesh!!!! But is it possible for brothers to use the tv or Internet for good use ?? Indeed it is possible...

    1. That is not what Naason said! i was there too and what he said was

      "when have we heard the servant of god say I GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO HAVE A T.V.?"

      he specifically said that the "apostle" has not given permission to own a T.V and even states that the doctrine from Aaron's time has not changed

      and in Aaron's time T.V was not allowed that is a fact and i know ministers that have said that!

      now in your comment you said it yourself that owning a T.V is a sin! so why are you trying to make an excuse for owning one??

    2. in other words Naason did not say using the T.V for specific reasons is not good, he said "OWNING" one has not been allowed and is on the same level of sin as a drunkard.

      near the end he sais that some brothers claim that "the servant of god has a t.v so why cant we?"

      and Naason states that those are "simple minded" people!

      and what is ridiculous is that people on this blog told me that they never heard Naason say that and now you claim you were there...

      clearly there is division among LLDM

  85. Jose

    To anonymous

    Division in the church I think not my dear friend!

    The brothers say that they haven't heard Nason say that, and it could be true. Where they probably working that day, outside of the church helping out maybe..

    Well you claim you where there, what time of the day did this happen in Guadalajara since there is service at 6,10,2,4,6 ...plz let me know what service was it on and what year????

    Having a tv is not a sin my dear friend! Using it for bad purposes is a sin, thus making the tv an accessory to a sin..

    The brother Nason said the Internet was bad and a sin a according to how someone would use it.. Because obviously the church uses the Internet for church...

    I would like to know what are your beliefs!! Are you the same anonymous that believes in evolution of natural selection. Because there are two anonymous from the last couple days that I have read...

  86. I am the same anonymous that backs up science! i am an agnostic! i will put "agnostic" on my messages

    Naason said this in the year 2011!

    You can try and twist his words to fit your own definition!

    in the recording i posted he states YOU DO NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO OWN A T.V

    i will let the people hear it and judge for themselves because you are in denial!

    there is no division in your church?? are you serious??

    i have heard so many different answers from ministers on Samuel's infallibility and his inability to sin!

    some say he can and others say he cant! do not lie online and say all of you agree because you do not!

    furthermore if you say T.V is allowed then LLDM's Doctrine has changed since Aaron

    so your doctrine has changed therefore even if you do somehow convince people that t.v is allowed (which it is not) you would still have to convince people why one Apostle would outlaw t.v and another would make it permissible

  87. Agnostic

    the topic when naason said this was:

    "no digas que los tiempos pasados fueron mejores" during the month of august 2011

  88. Agnostic

    there was a time in LLDM when Halloween was demonic and Christmas was satanic! are you going to deny this was the case in the 80's and 90's??

    now that Samuel decorates his ranches in these "demonic" decorations now all of a sudden everyone can do it!!

    please do not insult the people's intelligence by saying that non of what i say is true! at least admit when you are wrong! do not be like the Catholics, which LLDM condemn so much, who cover up past wrong doings

  89. Agnostic

    by the way why wouldnt the brothers have heard Naason say what he said!

    it was in August before your Holy Supper!

    if they were at work then apparently it is not "La fiesta mas grande de toda la tierra"

    dont you agree?

  90. Jose

    To anonymous

    No I don't agree.. Well it still is la fiesta mas grande del todo el mundo.. It wasn't on August 14, it was a 2 days before at 6pm .. Well regarding my brothers I can't speak for them to what they were doing, they were probably there or they weren't able to go.. And if they were not able to go then they might had work..

    So your agnostic.. So you don't believe in god or faith.. So one question do you believe in souls or the existence of a soul, "ghost"..

  91. Before I comment on your comments plz list the DIRECT LINKS TO THESE VEDIOS SO I CAN SEE THEM.. When I say direct www. Xxx.com or if you can copy/ paste the URL link... Please do so, I will see all the videos which you speak of befor I comment, because this what you speak of can be out of context in respect to the videos

  92. Agnostic

    my beliefs are that i cannot tell you 100% that a God does or does not exist. there is no proof of God so i cannot say he exists and since i try to be rational i do not say he does not exist! in the future maybe science will be able to detect a God. i do not know!

    i do know that the bible is too farfetched to be taken literally! i cannot believe Noah fit Thousands of species on a boat the size of a football field or that he lived to be over 500 years old.

    about ghosts...again i cannot tell you for certain. i do believe in paranormal investigation since they start as skeptics and try to find proof! i cannot say that ghosts are not real.

    the video was in the year 2011 on the month of august i do not recall what day exactly but it was 2011.


    you will hear Naason speak about t.v in a short recording

    scroll down to where you see a picture of him and a grey box with a play symbol will be seen.

  93. Agnostic

    i never said it was on august 14 what i meant was that if people do not remember what Naason said days right before the "holy supper" then it was must not have important to those people.

    every time i bring this topic up everyone sais they do not know what i am talking about

  94. Agnostic

    If you indeed heard the recording you will note that Nason did not bother to explain the "good" or "bad" of a T.V, no, he stated it is a sin on the same level as a woman member wearing pants or getting drunk!

    he said it was prohibited for anyone to watch t.v and if you use the defense of "well, Samuel watches t.v so it is ok for all of us to watch it" he calls you "simple minded" near the end of the recording, concluding that only Samuel is able to watch television

  95. I'm still trying to watch the videos but I'm using my iPhone I don't currently own a computer.. But I will post once I find the vedios

    1. Agnostic

      it is alright.

    2. Agnostic

      I can't watch the videos.. Would you like to talk about any other subject??

  96. Agnostic

    ok well the other subject that comes to mind is the dancers that LLDM prepares for Samuel.

    LLDM has some strict rules for the women members of the church. they are only allowed to wear long skirts up to the heel and her body must be modestly covered.

    however when it comes to the "Apostle" it seems that does not apply




    these women are dressed too revealing to be dancing for an Apostle dont you think?

  97. Agnostic

    I took a look at all the links you posted about the dancers... I would say there isn't so much that they reveal.. I would say revealing a lot would be in there under clothing, or really short mini skirts... I will wait for your response

  98. agnostic

    well...that is a first!

    why then dos LLDM mock the outside world on what they dress like? in one of the pictures the women are wearing PANTS!

    i thought that was a sin for a women!

  99. Agnostic

    I wouldn't say mock, but more of a comparison, between the outside world and lldm.. And yes wearing pants is a sin..

    Have you ever heard of casa cultura berra also known as CCB. well there is shows that lldm does to broadcast on tv.. And in those broadcasts are sisters and brothers that play as actors.. And they make all different types of scenes,and in some of those scenes sisters wear pants to complete the scene and to be in character according to the play.. I wouldent say its a sin for a purpose of church, either if its someone's birthday, or to spread the name of lldm..when I say purpose for church, it has to be approved by the minister or whoever is in charge, but wearing pants out of someone's own will is a sin..

    Just to comment more on lldm mocking the outside world, I would say lldm doesn't do it an a way to make fun, or hurt someone from the outside world..but in life there is nothing else we can compare and contrast, there is only lldm and the world( outside world).

  100. Agnostic

    so you are saying that the ministers and the Apostle can bend the rules when they see fit?

    dancing for the Apostle in what would normally be bad for a woman to wear is permissible as long as he gives his "divine" permission?

    that makes no sense to me...

    first of all the idea that wearing pants can land a woman in eternal torture is ridiculous. let me share with you why i think that.

    lets say a woman in lldm passes on and does so while she was wearing pants. lets say that this woman did not like skirts...so she passes away one day.

    do you believe that this woman will BURN ALL OF ETERNITY?

    think about that....an eternal torture in flame. that is incomprehensible. in trillions and trillions, and trillions, of years that woman will not even remember why she was burning and will have an eternity in that torture and for what?????

    because God did not like her wearing pants....


  101. Agnostic

    Well lets take a look.. If a women who would wear skirts the hole entire time she was in lldm and all of a sudden she wants to wear pants, that usually means that her faith is fading away and god will is not a priority anymore. If she would to die that same day she decides that god will is no longer her priority than I dare to say she well burn..but if she would to repent before than its a different story.

    I wouldent say he bends the rules, but lets take a look at why they would wear pants in a play..

    The type of pants that they have on looks like yoga or ballet pants.. I'm not sure what type of dance or show they did but with these pants they are needed to flexible or to be able to move around.. But in jean skirts it is not possible...I'm not sure in witch way you are taking the message from the links you posted.. Think about it would you. I will wait for your response . God bless

  102. Agnostic

    usually means her faith is fading?? because of pants?

    maybe a woman wears pants because they are comfortable! i may be an agnostic but i do read the bible and no where in the bible does it say that a women wearing pants is a sin. however if you look at these pics you will see LLDM men dressed as women including Pablo Gomez who sings at LLDM'S Santa Cenas every year!!



    now in these pics you can clearly see that LLDM men are dressed as Women!

    now that is in the bible, that men cannot dress in women's clothing and that women cannot dress in mens clothing

    Deuteronomy 22:5
    5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

    So can Samuel and LLDM ministers bend the rules when it comes to men wearing women's clothing? even if it was for a play?

  103. Agnostic

    Well I saw the pictures of the websites you posted of Pablo Valdez and other lldm men.. I also read a little bit of what the author of the website wrote.. That lldm members where dressed as a TRANSVESTITE , but once I saw the clothing it reminded me of DISCO STU- ..funny that the author of that page did very little investigation on the clothing, trying to catch people attention by say this word, transvistit.. Sending out the wrong message.. I don't know nothing about what they did in that show but here goes a link if you wish to check it out..


    Please be honest and you got to admit that there costumes are identical... I will wait on your response.. I have been honest with you and I wish you can return the favor on the costumes..

    I will wait for your response o

  104. Agnostic

    Well towards women faith fading away. Because of not wearing pants!! Indeed my friend..

    If a brother didn't smoke or drink the hole time he was in lldm or any other denomination and one day he woke up and said I'm going to smoke or drink today because I won't to have fun.. If he would to die do you think he will be saved?????

    1. why would God burn a person Forever though???? no matter what the crime what is the point of eternal punishment?

    2. Anonymous

      Do you believe in the law, or how convection works.. What I mean do you think it's fair for a killer, cereal killer, rapest to be out in the street??

  105. Agnostic

    Disco stu??? really what about the guys in the front wearing wigs that look like women's hair??

    i will let the people that look at the pictures judge for themselves even though they all look like homosexuals i will give you your defense on disco stu but we still have a problem.

    why are the men dressing in tight clothing? Samuel has said that men should not dress tight nor should they have LONG hair!!

    all religions are funny in that they all have someone that is privileged enough to "bend God's rules" in other words this one person can go around what is supposedly set by God.

    and here is the convenient part, they claim that we have to believe it by faith and they are acting in representation of GOD himself....

    they offer no proof, no evidence, not one lead to go by.

    just listen blindly to what i say since i am an Apostle/Prophet and if you do not believe, or if you want proof then you can go to hell!

    that means that these people have POWER in the world we are living in now of them OVER everyone else!! pretty convenient!!

  106. Agnostic

    When I say disco stu I really don't mean the character but a comparison of there time and what the costumes look like...

    Yes you are rite the apostle has said that men should not wear tight pants or have there hair long... But if you take a look at the link I had posted lots of dancers from that time had long hair.. Afros and etc.. That why the brothers in the front have a wig of long hair on.. I'm not sure if that was actually the theme to be honest. And yes at first site they do look like homosexuals but you can't judge a book by its cover.. Once you compare they don't look like homosexuals anymore because you no longer have tunnel vision.the apostle is not bending the rules.. Let me ask you a question?

    ether than a play, what rules has the apostle bent to his convenience... ??? In Guadalajara I have never heard that someone can wear jeans or tight pants for the apostle convenience.. I will wait for your response god bless

  107. Agnostic

    well first of all it is hard to imagine Jesus Christ caring about a play at all! of all the things this man's money can be used it is used for a play....

    and about bending the rules, his wife la hrma eva wears makeup and his granddaughter, the hrm benjamin's daughter is covered in jewelery! i have seen her personally!

    if that had been a regular member they would have announced the name at hermosa provincia!

    why dont they publicly announce his family!!

    also LLDM calls the "Apostle" is a king??? why?? nothing in this church says "JESUS" and if it does it is only to lead up to Samuel.

    you even have a song that states "ALIENTO DE MI SER"

    this song claims that the "Apostle" is the life of your soul.

    all of this, without one shred of evidence....religion is where the money is at.

  108. In regards to the Hrmana Eva I have not seen her with make up.. I can't speak about the brothers sister, because I have not seen her..

    Yeah that is true, they use to call them that but about 3 or 2 years ago he actually spoke and said" he is not a king, he does not have multiple wife's, he is the apostle of Jesus Christ..

    Where your beliefs always agnostic, or where they different befor??

  109. Agnostic

    i was born in LLDM, i received and was baptized. i spent more than 3/4 of my life in LLDM. i was faithful to the best of my abilities in church. until i noticed the obsession with money that has a hold of the upper levels of the church.

    i also could not stand how the elderly, who were diabetic, would feel the need to give their savings to the ministers for an "ofrenda especial" in honor of the "man of God" and the ministers instead of letting the elderly keep their money took every penny! afterwards these poor people were asking for loans to buy pills for their illness.

    around this time i started to go out and preach to people at their homes and it was then that i felt happy, but that did not last long.

    almas nuevas that i brought into church all got out because of the ministers and their constant nagging on money and offerings! some went back to being what they were before such as: Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists etc...
    when i spoke to the ministers about it their response was "do not worry about it they were never of God"

    that is what got me to question things and after a while i decided to read the entire bible cover to cover to find the answers i was looking for.

    when i finished the entire old testament i was disgusted to see how much of the bible sounds so barbaric.
    Abraham almost killing his son to prove his love of God, God killing the first born of Egyptians to help Moses escape with Israel from the land of Egypt, Noah being over 500 years old building an arc to save himself from God's anger in the form of a flood, Moses's wife cutting their son's foreskin with a sharp stone to keep God from killing them, God killing David's new born baby for a sin committed by someone else.

    all of this sounds man made and is never talked about in Sunday Schools. which got me to think, what if this is all made up? there is not one single piece of evidence for any of it. that would mean that the people at the top of religion have power over their flock and control over millions of people's lives!

    after that i got into science and read all i could about Evolution. this Scientific Theory goes against what i was taught about the creation of man. however evolution happens and it is proven to work in the medical labs.

    this was how i started out as an agnostic, can i say there is no God? no i cannot because i do not know. can i say there is a God? no i cannot because the evidence is not there.

    below i will post a link on how the hermana eva is seen. she clearly works on her eye browse and you can notice her cheeks have a little make on them. notice on the pic of the far right how open her chest area is.


    further more i will include another picture where on Samuel's birthday he is escorted by this young women dressed as a Pharaoh. she is clearly wearing makeup underneath the eyebrows and the rest of her face.


    is this not going against his own doctrine?

  110. Agnostic

    You said you where in lldm and that you had received. So you should know that lldm does not force anyone to give offerings.. It is out off ones own will to give...

    I wouldent say religion is where the money is at, the Church does give you a list on what they wast on, or you can ask directly...

    Well in regard to the hrma Eva, you got to look at her color tone threw what is visible.. It does look like she has a little bit of make up but, if you look at the coler tone of her neck and face it is he same, some parts of her neck look red as well.. So I don't think she has make up

  111. agnostic

    really? the offerings are not forced? so if i do not give a tithe will i go to hell?

    i have had several different ministers that i remember and out of all of them (7 total) only one has given a monthly list.

    look at the hrma eva's cheeks you cannot tell me you do not notice the blush.

    have you seen the concert lldm had for samuel a few years back? if i am not mistaken it was in the kodak stadium...

    during that concert they held a play about the sun, moon, earth and how the sun wanted to destroy the earth. during the play (which sounds pagan) they play a screen with all of the bad men of the past. afterwards when the sun is asked to look at the good people such as: Gandhi, Martin Luther king and Jesus Christ, the sun stops and analyses his choice and asks "is ther anyone living now that equals Jesus Christ" then they direct themselves to where Samuel was and they play tribute on the background screen! They mention Samuel longer than Christ!

    do you think this is good for a religious person to do?

    Do you not agree that if the pope did this, with a play of the sun and moon, that LLDM would be up in arms saying it is a pagan ritual mixed with astrology?

    furthermore why do they pretend that the APS organization does not know Samuel? why do they take us for fools?

    Samuel founded the APS organization!! why do they not call him Apostle in their website??

  112. Agnostic

    and now we have LLDM pastor Carlos Montemayor, who has always condemned the Catholics for using the word "Immaculate" for their idols, using the exact same word for his idol Samuel Joaquin!

    now it turns out that Samuel Joaquin was born from an Immaculate conception


  113. Agnostic

    What is your input on Samuel Juaquien and if you can use biblical facts.. Sorry to not responded I've been busy.. When I say input what is your thinking, about what Carlos said.

  114. Agnostic

    do not worry about not responding it is ok we all get busy.

    well, i will say this about Samuel Joaquin. i do not believe Samuel Joaquin has done what people accuse him of doing! all of the things circling the internet are just accusations. i have not seen proof of him doing any of the things people accuse him of. Everyone is Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

    Do i believe he is an evil man? i do not know, it is impossible to know his heart.
    the problems i do have with Samuel is how the members of lldm see him. they are willing to sacrifice their children for him offering them too God, they turn them into the obra or other things similar to this. they They say that without him they cannot go on...

    furthermore some say he cannot sin or that people like me will burn forever for leaving lldm. that i will never be happy for leaving the servant of God and that God will punish me either in this life or the next. that to me is ridiculous!

    1. Hi, do you think had more people believed the Servant of God Noah, that more people would have been saved from the flood? Fast forward to the time of Paul, do you think if someone didnt believe in him they had hope in Christ? Fast forward to now and this is why we believe in him.

    2. Agnostic

      you are assuming what people told you is true. i can use the same logic with you...if a man outside if lldm claims to be an apostle today would you believe him? if a man outside of lldm claims to be a messiah would you give him a chance to speak? you would not since the person you believe is samuel joaquin. people can be really critical and logical when it comes to other religions, such as how la luz del mundo is with the catholic church, but when it comes to criticizing those people's beliefs they say it is blasphemy.
      you bring up the story of Noah, how do you explain him being 900 or so years old when the longest lifespan was 30?? in the beginning of genesis it states that the animals were to be let into the ark in groups of 7 from every species, then later it contradicts itself and sais in pairs of 2 of every species.

      genesis 6:19-20 sais 2 of every kind

      genesis 7: 2-3 sais by sevens

      which is it?

  115. Lldm is a cult it's not even a religion. Why are the men and women segregated. Did Jesus segregate Mary Magdalene from the disciples. Jesus said many will come in my name deceiving people. I think lldm is doing a very good job of that.