March 11, 2010

The church of La Luz Del Mundo’s Doctrine of “Apostolic Authority”.

According to the teachings of the church, La Luz Del Mundo (The Light of the World) there was no one here on earth with the authority to be an access for salvation until year 1926. In this same year a man by the name of Aaron Joaquin proclaimed himself as having received this authority or “Apostolic Authority” from God and declared himself and gave himself the title of Apostle so that mankind my now have away to salvation and that because of him “the time for salvation” could begin again having been hidden away from the world since the death of John the apostle all most 2000 years ago.

During the period of 1926 to 1964, Aaron Joaquin declared that all must believe in him and be under “his” apostolic authority in order to receive salvation, and to believe in him now because after his death the way for salvation would stop; this is known as the “time for salvation”.

For a brief time there was great fear within the church of La Luz Del Mundo because of the sudden death of Aaron Joaquin, 1964 (cause of death unknown), but Aaron’s son, Samuel Joaquin Flores, stepped in to take over by declaring himself the new anointed Apostle of God to receive the gift of “Apostolic Authority” or “Election” so that the “times for salvation” may continue for the church members of La Luz Del Mundo and to all of the world.

So for La Luz Del Mundo the power for salvation is coming from an Apostle rather then from the Scriptures or the word of God the Father. It is this belief that supports their definition of “Apostolic Authority” and declares the churches Apostle as having authority over word of God.

The church La Luz Del Mundo openly teaches that the world can not understand the Scriptures without an Apostle on earth with “Apostolic Authority” teaching it to you, because only he understands the will of God and correctly interpret the mysteries and true meaning of the Scriptures.

This of course discourages the members of La Luz Del Mundo from studying the Holy Scriptures on their own only receiving what they are told while attending church services. Many Sunday study services are dedicated to nothing but getting the churches members to attain church everyday to that they can receive the truth. For them all knowledge of God is only found when it is being told to them by the church’s ordained pastors, deacons or the apostle himself.

I am here to declare that this is not the truth and is not what the Scripture teaches!

The Lord Jesus Christ is and has been the only access for salvation and there is no one between man and the Father expect for Jesus Christ. He is alive and very much well in heaven mediating between man and the Father. He is the only one with the authority for the forgiveness of sins. The apostle Paul declares this very clearly in his letter to the Ephesians.

Ephesians 1:7-9
“7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,”

Ephesians 1:13-14
“13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:22-23
22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

So you see, Jesus Christ is the one that has all of the authority and continues to still be the only way, for it is through the blood of Jesus Christ that you are saved because he is still alive in heaven.

And when you believe in the word of the truth you are saved because of him and not because you are under the apostolic authority of Samuel Joaquin Flores nor anyone else.

Jesus Christ is the only for salvation and access for salvation, period!

John 14:5-6
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It might be that you are hearing this for the first time, that Jesus Christ is the only access for salvation, because his living blood is the only way anyone can have their sins washed away so that in Jesus Christ you can be brought, in the spirit, into the presents of the Father in heaven and receive the free and loving gift of grace that is to say – salvation.

Samuel Joaquin Flores is not the gate keeper or mediator between man and Jesus Christ.

By the love of God the Father, you can have direct access to the Lord Jesus Christ all by yourself. And how can you have this access? By “Believing” just as Paul told the jailer in the book of Acts. as well as his statement in his book to the Romans.

Acts 16:29-32
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

Romans 10:13
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

To receive salvation and grace from God the Father does not required for you to be under anyone’s “Apostolic Authority” in order to guarantee your salvation from the coming judgment of Jesus Christ.

Just believe in the name of Jesus Christ and place all of your trust in him. Once you come to believe and trust in Jesus Christ alone you will immediately receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Salvation and grace from the Father through the blood of Jesus Christ does not require you to be under anyone’s authority, except for the authority of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

God the Father is telling you here, through Paul, everything we need to know about the mystery of salvation. First be willing to hear the truth, which is the gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus, and secondly once you believe the truth you are promised to be sealed with the Holy Spirit. On the coming day of judgment those who are not sealed with the mark of the Holy Spirit will not have their names written in the “book of life”.

In your heart you are looking to Samuel Joaquin Flores for access to the Lord Jesus Christ and this is wrong!

When you look to someone else other than Jesus Christ for the truth we are not “marked” with the right seal. You are marked with the seal of another , the antichrist, and you will be rejected by the Lord Jesus Christ and that rejection, or judgment, means that you will be put into the “lake of fire” – Hell, for all eternity.

Revelation 20:14-15
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ephesians 2:18
18For through him
(Jesus Christ) we both (Jews and Gentiles) have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Samuel Joaquin Flores, through the church La Luz Del Mundo, has taught you that he is the guardian of the mysteries of God; this too is another false teaching. The mystery that was hidden before the first coming of Christ Jesus was revealed also over 2000 years ago and is stated very clearly by Paul.

Ephesians 3:6
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:12
12In him (Jesus Christ) and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Regarding the way to salvation there is no mystery anymore for it was revealed to man over 2000 years ago as was prophesied in the Old Testament.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way for your true salvation and access to the Father in heaven for grace and forgiveness of your sins, and you do not have salvation from your sins if you continue to call upon Samuel Joaquin Flores or anyone else for you assurance of salvation.

I offer a challenge to anyone of La Luz Del Mundo to present any Scripture that supports the doctrine of “Apostolic Authority” according to the teachings of Samuel Joaquin Flores as started by his father, Aaron Joaquin.

I guarantee to you that you will not find any of the original apostles of Jesus Christ ever declaring that it is because of them under “Apostolic Authority” that the “time for salvation” was on the earth for mankind. They all, with out hesitation, glorified Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life that leads to the Father and to salvation (John 14:6).

It does not matter what is going on here on earth or who is doing what. Salvation has been available to the entire world under the authority of Jesus Christ since his death on the cross, his resurrection from the grave, and his ascension into heave to be with the Father.

To this day Jesus Christ is our High Priest, and is with Father in heaven, in the perfect body of the first born from death providing is perfect blood for the forgiveness of sins and interceding to the Father on our behalf to this very day!
This is the entire theme of the Book of Hebrews. The author, probably Paul, is explaining to the Christian-Jews that there is no longer any need for an earthly high priest or earthly mediator between man and the Father because we now have the one and only true High Priest, alive forever, in the true tabernacle with the Father, Amen.


  1. I offer a challenge to anyone of La Luz Del Mundo to present any Scripture that supports the doctrine of “Apostolic Authority” according to the teachings of Samuel Joaquin Flores as started by his father, Aaron Joaquin.

    Ive never heard that we have to be under his authorithy. WE have the free willto choos what we wont.
    I remember once during a tranmission he was telling the church how many parents could raise up there hands and say that there child has gone ut to be a missionary. He was saying that many parents preffer for there kids to keep going with there education. He said that parents would say that: why should they go if there already set. ANd he said stay with the world because the church dosent have the need of them because there are members of the church that do go out and preach the gospol.
    Point-we know that he has authorihty, were not forced under it, we know that he is the apostol of jesus.
    Towerd the salvation chris.
    if you read romans 10:1 it says thatthe apostol would pray for isreal, for salvation. Whats your insight on this.

    1. I am an ex member of the church. My parents were members of that church when I was born. 40 years ago, and about 7 years ago, something begin to happen My spirit was thirsty for truth, peace, knowledge and even though I went every day I was not enough. I was going to another church on sundays, so i usually spent all day sunday between churches. To make a long story short and to prove annonymous wrong. The pastor was teaching and I only heard the last part of the sentence, and I quote, he said" We owe our salvation to him" and I agreed thinking he was talking about Jesus Christ. Then I heard him say again, this time he finished the sentence, "We owe our salvation to Samuel Joaquin Flores" and at that moment I knew that something was not right. I still attended and I continued to pay full attention. They were replacing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ name with Samuel joaquin flores. I made a comment about what the bible teaching us what happens if anybody shall omit or add from his teaching. Well, then they started teaching that it was Ok if he changed verses in the bible since he is an apostle chosen by Jesus Christ and he had authority from Jesus Christ himself. They have some outrageous teaching and stories that blatantly contradicts The Word of God, which is the truth, the light and the way. And they pray for the Apostle every cause we are told that if he dies there will be no more salvation on earth, because the "link" to Jesus Christ is gone.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. the church La Luz Del Mundo doesn't replace "Apostle Samuel Joaquin Flores" for Jesus Christ. they believe that Jesus Christ lives in his "Apostle". but you have to have faith in order to believe that. it says in the bible in Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." so you have to have faith to believe that Jesus Christ lives in the "Apostle". and not everyone has that faith or not everyone is in that level of faith to understand and comprehend. so yes, we do owe our lives to the "Apostle" because we are in that level of faith and understanding that we believe that Jesus Christ lives in his Holy Aposlte.

    4. and your proof of this? yes you can say its faith but everyone can claim that, the Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses all claim it is faith as well. you cite the bible, but that is not proof of anything. how do you know Samuel heard God's voice? how do you know that they are not symptoms of schizophrenia?

    5. it is all in faith. if you don't have faith then it's not worth trying to explain because you are just being ignorant.

    6. if you are going to ask how do i know that Samuel heard god's voice its like asking how do you know Jesus Christ is the son of God? there doesn't have to be evidence to show you that God talks directly to his Apostle. if you want evidence than you might as well become a scientist who wants evidence for everything. it is all in faith and if you believe.

    7. ignorant? its funny how a person who believes in a talking snake or Jonah living in a belly of a whale calls me ignorant! yes, i do look for evidence for everything i am not gullible nor superstitious like you are! you say "there doesn't have to be evidence to show you that God talks directly to his Apostle" wow very convenient for religion to always answer in that manner! Catholics, Mormons, la Luz Del Mundo and all other religions claim to have faith and that theirs is the only true faith! why doesn't there have to be any evidence for these claims? you automatically assume what people told you is true! you may laugh or mock scientist that demand evidence for everything but while you typed your comment on your computer, courtesy of science by the way, science was busy looking for cures for deadly illnesses and how to cure cancer or other sicknesses (like Samuel's sickness) so laugh and pray all you want while science heals you buddy! it is the 21st century grow up already!

  2. Well said. Thanks for this website. I'm a protestant and someone at my school is from la luz del mundo. I debated with him for an hour. He finally told me that he does not believe in the trinity and I also challenged him to show me any evidence of the apostles saying salvation comes through them. He jumped around a lot and tried to use the prophecy of the golden lamp stands in Zechariah 4, but had some trouble putting it all together. I showed him salvation comes by FAITH, and not through anything else and it is a FREE gift to anyone who will believe. These people seem very hesitant to look in Revelation for anything to validate their claims. I was urged not to using any scripture from Revelation. He was also perplexed on how I would receive the Holy Spirit. I'm praying that he finds the real truth!

  3. hello shane bernard i am a member of la luz del mundo and yes salvation is a free gift so long as u believe in the annointed of god! and also remember that there are certain things one must do b4 attaining that gift! if u recall our lord jesuschrist told nicodemus "he who is not born of water or of spirit canot see the kingdom of god" as u can see we have certain things to do before attaining eternal life! if u want to debate i would love to so long as we stay repectful in our comments! i will keep an open mind! also i would like to start our talk by opening with a qestion and here it is, where in the bible can u find me an example that god talked directly to the people? wether it was israel or the gentiles our god has always had a prophet or an apostle! the very meaning of the word apostle in greek is "an emissary" or "a delegate". let our talk begin... :) i will go by the name of gabriel that way u dont have to adress me as anonymous lol!

  4. The Bible says that Jesus Christ was anointed by God with the Holy Spirit to spread the Good News and free those who have been held captive by sin (Luke 4:18-19; Acts 10:38). After Christ left the earth, He left us the gift of the Holy Spirit (John 14:16). Now all Christians who by faith in Christ are anointed, chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God's Kingdom (1 John 2:20).

    "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee" (2 Corinthians 1:21-22).

    We are all now anointed - chosen by God thru Christ Jesus - to spread the Gospel of good news.

  5. Gabriel

    to christopher

    can you show biblical evidence that we are ALL anointed plz???


  6. Dear Gabriel,

    The doctrine of LDM has been to make the office of “Apostolic Authority” as a position of “high priest” and church officials as a priesthood serving the office of Apostolic Authority. This doctrine makes the members of LDM believe that it is only thru this priesthood and by the prayers of the acting Apostle that access to Christ Jesus and the Heavenly Father for of forgiveness of sins will come. Or in other words the Apostle (high priest) is the only door to heaven.

    A study of the New Testament reveals that all Christians are priests. Peter said, "You too are living stones, built as an edifice of spirit, into a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ" (I Peter 2:5). All Christians are of that holy priesthood and can offer unto God spiritual sacrifices. All have the right to go directly to God through Jesus Christ, our High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16).

    Peter continued, "You, however, are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people he claims for his own to proclaim the glorious works of the One who called you from darkness into his marvelous light" (I Peter 2:9). Revelation 1:6 says, "...Who has made us a royal nation of priests in the service of his God and Father." Consequently, the New Testament repeatedly teaches that all Christians are priests. When one obeys the gospel of Christ, he is added to the body of Christ and is thereby part of God's holy priesthood. As priests, all can offer up spiritual sacrifices and draw nigh to God through the mediator-ship of Jesus.

    A sacrificing priesthood of men was indeed appointed under the law of Moses, but the animal sacrifices offered by the priests of the Old Testament were mere types and shadows of the one sacrifice made by Christ. By the one sacrifice made by Jesus, He put an end both to the Levitical priesthood and the Old Testament law. (See Hebrews 7:23-25; Colossians 2:14-17).

    Jesus is now at the right hand of God and ever lives to make intercession for His people (Hebrews 7:25; 9:24). Through the one sacrifice of Himself, He became the sole mediator through which men have access to God (I Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 7:26-27; 9:24-28; Ephesians 2:18). He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:8-9).

    There is no priesthood on earth that has the right to forbid each Christian to go directly to God through Christ, or to assume the authority to administer graces and obtain mercy for others. All Christians are of that royal priesthood of God, and have but one great High Priest, Jesus Christ.

  7. Gabriel

    to christopher

    ok where then does the bible say we go directly to god without an apostle? can you list some chapters?


  8. Gabriel,

    To answer that question requires four fundamental doctrines of salvation in the name of Jesus that allows those in Him to go directly to God the Father through God the Word in the immortal body of Jesus Christ.

    1: The Gospel of John 14:6 - Jesus himself is declaring that He is the only to the Father.

    “6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

    2: Romans 10: verses 8-13 – Apostle Paul is declaring that it is by faith in Jesus alone we are saved.

    “8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    3: I Peter 2: verse 9: Apostle Peter is declaring that once we are by faith saved in Christ we are members of a priesthood as priests with the Lord Jesus the one and only true High Priest.
    “9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”

    4: Hebrews Chapter 4: verses 14-16 – the author of Hebrews (probably Paul), as priests in the priesthood of Jesus Christ are able to go directly to God the Father in heaven in spirit.
    14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are —yet he did not sin. 16Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

    1. Answer christopher gabriel come on lol

    2. I'll answer that, with scripture. You see, pharisees require more then just scripture though. But I can't provide that, so I am limited to using the Bible for the Pharisees willing to read. I'll use the New and Old American Standard Bible.

      First point. Yes, Jesus said that he was the way to the father (John 14:6) But what is the way to the son? Because I can't walk up to Jesus and shake his hands. He's not on Earth anymore since he is at his father's side (Hebrews 10:12).

      Luke: 10:16- “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”

      In the context of the verse Jesus Christ was speaking about the 12 Apostles. So if one does not receive an Apostle of God, one cannot receive Jesus Christ. And if we do not receive Jesus, how can we make it to God since Jesus is the way to the father?

      Second point: You claim that Apostle Paul said that but faith in Jesus alone, no works, no faith in God, no faith in Apostles, no baptism, no Holy Spirit, No refraining from sin, just faith.

      Yet Jesus Christ said in Matthew 7:21-23
      “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

      So even if we believe and say "Lord, lord" and prophesy in his name, we will not be saved. Does LLDM not believe in Jesus Christ when more than half our songs are about him? When we say "Jesus" more than "Jehovah?" So why won't we be saved? Do we not believe? Do we not baptize in Jesus' name? Do we not use his name to pray? To ask for forgiveness? To worship? Who are you to impose upon us a doctrine that we do not believe in and try to then defame us by saying that it is our doctrine? Is the lie not an act of the children of the father of the lie, the devil?

      The bible says in James 2:14-17, 19 that faith alone without works is dead. Jesus Christ said in John Chapter 2 that we must be born of water and spirit to enter into God's kingdom. And we just saw how he also said in Luke 10:16 that we must receive the Apostles to receive him. Do you believe that Jesus is a liar? That he played with his followers saying all of this just to turn around and say "Psych! All you need to do is raise your hand and say 'I believe' and you'll be saved. I was just messing with you."?

      Point 3: About the priest hood. We do not preach nor believe that the Apostle of God is the high priest.

      Point 4:
      Read above, we do not disagree on that point either. Do not lie about our beliefs, that's what the pharisees did.


    3. Hello!! Ok this goes to -John
      The verse Like 10:16 you use to defend your belief is invalid. You must read the whole chapter and not just that verse. Doing that you will find out Jesus was talking about 72 persons.

      Luke 10:1 NIV

      After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.

      Luke 10:17 NIV

      The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

      John I hope you continue reading the Bible it will guide you to the truth.
      And Christopher thank you for creating this blog.


  9. Gris: Then tell me who was Jesus referring to in John 17? Please read King James (the bible with the least "translations" of men as possible). Now do you see? wasn't he praying for the Apostles.
    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me THROUGH THEIR word.
    Acts 13:47 Apostle Paul: 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

    Christopher and Gris, I mean no disrespect when I say, stop being fools. You know nothing of the teachings of the Lord, because you have yet to be deposited life in the Lord. Until you receive the one who he has sent, and stop the blasphemy against him, as Jesus was when he was on earth.
    John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
    Gris: Jesus is the Lord and therefore as it says in the beginnging of Luke 10 he appointed the 72, and that's ok because he has that authority. However, he did not authorize them into Apostles as he did when he prayed for his 12 disciples in John 17.

  10. Chris & Gris: Please also answer to John 13 where Jesus annoints his APOSTLES feet, more specifically in verse 20 where he says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."

    ...and again, please don't write about 'The true teachings of LLDM' until you know the True Teachings of the house of God. I say this for your benefit.

  11. Hi Job. In response to John 17:20: Jesus is praying for his disciples as stated in the introduction. He prays for those who believe and receive Gods Word. Since the apostles believed and received it, yes they are included in this prayer, and may I add a beautiful prayer to us the believers. Now I know you stressed out "through their" word, and that's good... Because the mission of disciples is to talk and share Gods Word. So when Jesus says "through their word" he is saying through their message, through what's coming out all disciples mouth... Which is the Word of God.

  12. In response to Acts 13:47: "that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth" Ok "thou" would be "you" "shouldest" is "should" and "be for" is "agree" like you are accepting something, now in this verse it continues with the word salvation, and we all know Jesus is salvation. Paul is expressing how Jesus told him he (Paul) is for salvation. He is in Jesus side. So than Paul has the opportunity to fulfill what Jesus foretold. He is doing the job Jesus wanted him to do. I think you are reading it like this... "That you are salvation till the end of the world" instead of "That you are FOR salvation until the ends of earth." Let me also point out that it says ends with an "s" meaning plural. So the ends of the earth is all over the earth. Meaning all the places here in earth. That does not mean that there will always be apostles until the end of the world.
    Now I do recommend that you read 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 Diivision of the Church. I want read what Paul said to those who were divided in the church. How some were saying " I ' am for Apollos" others ' I' am for Cephas" then how some for Paul and also some saying " I' am for Christ" people were arguing on who to follow. This happens even today with some Christians. Some Christians become attached to the messenger instead of the message. And what did Paul say about this attitude? Keep in mind he did include himself as well. He asked the people 13: Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? Now ask yourself was SJF crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of SJF? The obvious answer here is Jesus did all of the above. He is the one we should all follow and not be so attached to one who only spreads his word. If you believe one must believe in an apostle for salvation to then believe in Jesus, then ask yourself why was he bothered by what the people were doing? If after all they were following apostles, and even some Christ. He would have said something like, " As long as you all believe in us you will be saved, and for those who say I 'am for Christ you need to first believe in one of us because believing in Christ alone will not be enough" Now, for my question on was SJF crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of SJF.. If your answer is no for both then tell me... as Christians why are we divided?]

  13. About your comment 'Until you receive the one who he has sent, and stop the blasphemy against him" Let me inform you that I have received and accepted him, and his name is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. And you actually said the bible verse to support, its just that you haven't read the whole chapter to understand Jesus was talking about himself and not an apostle. By continuing to read after
    John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." When then asked 30: "What sign shewest thou then, that we may see , and believe thee?" In other words how will they know.. Jesus answers him by saying that 32 "... but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven." 33 "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" So he is saying God sent bread from heaven, and of course very happy to hear the answer to his question the man request that bread! In which Jesus then claims 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life. God sent bread= Jesus is bread. Therefore this verse you use to support that when Jesus was saying to receive the one he has sent, that he was talking about SJM or any Apostle is invalid my friend. Now about your other comment on "stop the blasphemy against him" its not blasphemy when you have bible versus to support your claim.
    For your response to my comment on Luke 10 I agree with you, but maybe you should talk to your fellow church member from "AnonymousSeptember 5, 2012 at 9:00 AM" to explain this verse, because like you he was using a bible verse to support a teaching from SJF that was invalid to what it read, and I was only explaining that that verse was for the 72 and not only the 12. But it seems like members from LLDM use bible versus that don't go with their explanation.
    Ok well for John 13 where Jesus washes his disciples feet (13:5-9) showing his love to them and also (13:12-17)as an example that those who follow him should be humble and serve one another that's when he is telling his disciples that they should wash one another's feet too. Now Jesus also tells them (13:19) that one of them has " lifted up his heel against me" and that he wanted to let them know before it happens, so then Jesus says 13:20 He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me" and he is saying this because everyone was going to know that within the chosen ones there was one who betrayed Jesus, so the people will have doubt if they should even follow the others. So that is why Jesus said that at that moment. Now, what I would like to see is a verse that supports that there were going to be more apostles in the future. Because we can agree on versus when directed at apostles, but you also take it as including SJF. How about a verse that says what makes him an apostle and also that we need one today.
    I do also recommend to read Acts 1:21 For what is needed to be an apostle. ... Wherefore of these these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection, now ask yourself if SJF fits the requirements.

    It was great sharing Gods Word with you Job and you the reader as well ! :) -Gris

  14. First, I can't believe how you minimize the Apostles. Men who God chose and Jesus himself annointed. You see, Jesus was praying to God giving the Apostles his authority? Haven't you read that the Apostles performed miracles where others couldn't?
    To prove to you that there would be more Apostles Jesus would send. John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Who was this shepherd he spoke of? SJF. BTW you completely misconstrued John 13:20, "20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I SEND receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." Sent by Jesus Gris, not appointed by men. You don't understand how God came to establish the NEW pact with mankind through Jesus. I'll explain on my next post because I have to go. But yeah, good talking to you.

  15. "I do also recommend to read Acts 1:21 For what is needed to be an apostle. ... now ask yourself if SJF fits the requirements."

    Now ask yourself, was the Apostle Paul around to witness Jesus in life and resurrection? You see, the Apostles placed it in the hands of the Lord to ask whom of the two would take Judas' place in the Apostolate. To further validate this point, let me explain to you how God came to establish his New pact with mankind. Starting with John 21:33-46 The Parable of the Vineyard:

    33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
    34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
    35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
    36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
    37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
    38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
    39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
    40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
    45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
    46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    Obviously Jesus referred to God his father as the householder of the vineyard. He sent his servants, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Samuel, Elijah, David etc. to order the husbandmen, or laborers. "34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
    35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
    36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise."
    Pay particular mind to when the time of the fruit drew near, I will touch on the subject of time later on. Now the householder of the vineyard sent his son (Jesus) thinking that the laborers (Jews) would respect him, but instead wanted to take upon his glory which so many men in this day and age have attempted, but not in his suffering. They slayed the Son, now, "40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?"
    The scriptures say he will "miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."
    Then Jesus Quoted them a Psalm from King David, "The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?" Finally, he told them, "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

  16. How then Did God come to establish his new pact? Through the Apostles. Who did Jesus send out with his authority to cast out demons, to forgive sins, to heal, to preach? The Apostles. The Son does as the father, John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." God sent the people of Israel Prophets, Servants of God. Jesus, changed the new pact through his Apostles. Please, read up on the Works of Paul, Peter, and the rest of the Apostles. They literally performed miracles through Jesus Christ who was with them at all moments.
    You see Gris, the Grace of God comes only to earth in season that God choses. "34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it." Read what it says in Romans 5:14, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." To further prove to you that the reign of God had to return to earth, read Acts 1:6-7, "6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

    I leave you with this quote from the Apostle Aaron, "Many want the glory which God has given me, but they don't want to join me in my prayers, suffering, and worship." Many times the Apostle Aaron was persecuted and almost killed for preaching the Gospel of Christ in Mexico, an almost entirely Catholic country. These men of God, Apostles, are a great gift from God to mankind (Acts 13:47). My intent Gris is not to confuse you nor to hurt you, but to enlighten you. I hope you take from this peace, hope, and love. I wish that if you have any further questions one day you will visit the Light of the World.

    1. LLDM is not without blame my friend! or do you not remember last year when the pope visited Silao Guanajuato...what did LLDM do? they set up a huge sign that read "WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS! WE ARE LA LUZ DEL MUNDO" They said it was a reunion for professionals that they do yearly but that is a lie! LLDM does not hold yearly meetings for college students! your church was flat out trying to provoke Catholics and trying to take advantage of the cameras knowing all eyes were on silao! let me ask you something..what if the Pope visited Guadalajara during the santa cena on August 14 and sets up a sign on one of the cathedrals saying "WE ARE NOT MEMBERS OF LA LUZ DEL MUNDO! WE ARE ROMAN CATHOLICS!" you cannot tell me LLDM will show tolerance! the pators of LLDM would condemn that act in a heart beat!

  17. Job sounds like Apostles are more important to you than Jesus. Can't you see Jesus already did what your savior SJF claims to do. If SJF would be preaching the word of God to what the Bible says and not give himself credit then everything would be fine... But he does not... and that is why there are so many sites around to help people who are about to get lied to just as you were.

  18. Job sounds like Apostles are more important to you than Jesus. Can't you see Jesus already did what your savior SJF claims to do. If SJF would be preaching the word of God to what the Bible says and not give himself credit then everything would be fine... But he does not... and that is why there are so many sites around to help people who are about to get lied to just as you were.

  19. Apparently you don't know what you are talking about. You are talking about a man who has turned more souls to Jesus than you ever could in 2 liftimes. Do you know that everything he does, he does it in the name of Jesus Christ? Every prayer, every baptism, everything he has accomplished he attributes it and gives thanks to The Lord. Dont you know, Jesus is an Apostle? The Apostle of God? dont uuu know, that Jesus commissioned 12 originally to cast out demons and preach his Gospel?? If the Apostles were not important my friend, then why would Jesus treat them, instruct them, love them, an commission them the way he did. He never left them. Chris Tarrant also thinks Apostles are not necessary, but i guess he undermines everything Jesus came to establish, and all the work the Apostles did after his resurrection. How do I know this, because I have the truth, that like Paul, Jesus would call more Apostles to preach the true Gospel of Christ (Luke 11:49). By his fruits you will know him. Look up how many hospitals, schools, charity and most importantly temples and souls he has converted to Christ from all walks of life. #respect #GBY

    1. Job I'm glad you point out to all of us what SJF is.. A MAN. And please don't compare me to him, because I would not ask people to call me their savior. Anyway you have it wrong.. SJF turns souls to the devil.. yes I think he is the antichrist. Here are my bible versus to support : 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.. ok so if you DON'T SAY Jesus Christ came in the flesh you are NOT of God and are the antichrist.. ok so lets review real quick... John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.. so based on (1 John 4:3) we now know that this verse talks about Jesus, so now lets review who is the Word... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Alright then so here we learned that God was the Word! so what did we get here?? Antichrist are spirits who deny that Jesus came in the flesh.. and we learned that the God was the Word and the Word became Flesh= Jesus... yes God=Jesus the spirit that denies that is the antichrist... now tell me who does SJF say Jesus is?????

      by the way.. In your position I wouldn't recommend looking up SJF because ALL that comes out are the rape accusations and fraud ect.. so yes just as you mentioned (Luke 11:49). By his fruits you will know him.

    2. Here are more bible versus to support there is no other savior but Jesus Christ my friends. We only need him :)

      1 Timothy 2:5
      5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
      (No mediator No SJF only Jesus!)

      Acts 4:12
      12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (No name given only Jesus Christ!)

      John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. (It does not say through an Apostle then me then God.. No.. only Jesus!)

      Please don't be fooled my friends!! Jesus is the only way. The Lord be with you all and give you guidance.

    3. Yes, Jesus Christ is the only Lord and Savior. We at LLDM completely agree! We just believe that Jesus came to establish his first 12 Apostles and the latter for a reason.
      Now to show you that Jesus is the SON of God.

      1. You are contradicting yourself. In 1 Timothy 2:5 it says, "there is one God, and one mediator, that is Christ Jesus." Now, where I'm from there has to be another party in order for there to be a mediator.

      2. In John 14:6 "no man comes to the FATHER, but by me." Oh, and he makes numerous references about his father WHO SENT HIM, God. I thought you said Jesus is God?

      About you and your leaping conclusions about LLDM. I don't know who you are, but I can bet you have not turned more souls over to Christ than SJF. How many souls have you turned over to Christ? Fyi 1 John 4:3, when did we deny Jesus came in the Flesh? Did you read my last post??

      Yes we at LLDM BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST AS OUR ONLY LORD AND SAVIOR! But, can you and Chris Tarrant show me the way to Christ????? I'll give you a hint, those verses you selected in 1 Timothy and Acts who said that?? I'll give you a clue, they were Apostles of Jesus Christ.

    4. Well I'm glad you agree that Jesus is the only savior, but see you are not following what you say. Simply because you have TWO saviors and that's wrong. No where in the Bible does an Apostle say "I am your savior, believe in me to get to Jesus."

      1. How do I contradict myself if on 1 Timothy 2:5 if that's what is written? You are saying the Bible contradicts itself! which of course is not true, because in reality whats contradicting id your beliefs vs the Bible... and that's why you think like that. You say "now, where I'm from there has to be another party." So what you are saying it that you are adding to this verse.. which is also wrong. Where in the bible does it say "There is another mediator aside from Jesus" in those words? yeah no where.

      2. John 14:6 yes I agree he Jesus does call God father, but at the same time Jesus says a lot of things God says as well. I know it may be confusing at times, but just allow yourself to think outside of your beliefs. Have an open mind. I do recommend to read all of John to have a better understanding of who Jesus is. Keeping in mind that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are a distinct center of consciousness and personal existence, yet they share the exact same divine nature in essence. They are three persons and one being. The three can communicate with each other, and that is why you see several versus of Jesus talking to God.

      I' am a disciple of Christ. When did this become a competition on who can turn more souls over to God? Are we getting points here? Is that how SJF works? And you deny Jesus came in the Flesh when you deny God came in the Flesh.. that's when I gave you all the Bible versus that explain the Word is God and God came in the Flesh and the Flesh is Jesus. Deny that and you deny Jesus.

      yes my friend 1 Timothy and Acts were said by an Apostle, but tell me... where in there did you read an Apostle say.. " I' am your savior! Believe in me FIRST?.. don't add words to the Bible please. If its not there then its blasphemy. Now someone did ask an Apostle this..
      Acts 16:30-31
      "When the Philippian jailer asked Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” Paul responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” Here Paul had the chance to say " Believe in me and you will be saved." Don't be fooled my friend.

    5. No the Apostles never said I am your savior because they are humble and they too Jesus is the only Lord and savior. But Jesus did say this:

      "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." (Matthew 10:40 KJV)


      "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." (John 13:20 KJV)

      Who did he say that to? The Apostles.

      I would keep an open mind, but if I weren't able to read the lies between your teeth. I only pray for the pour soul who taught you all these fallacies. BTW that chapter you say, where the Verb is made Flesh? Yes, the Word of God is in Jesus Christ, but God is more than a verb. You keep believing the trinity, a man made concept after Sheeba from Hinudism. But as the good book says, God is one, not three entities. Jesus is the son. You quit adding tithe bible with your confusion. You are confusing others who don't know better, but not me. You can't.

    6. You contradict yourself when you say that Jesus is God, and then you use 1 Timothy 2:5 to say he is the mediator. How can he be God, and the mediator?? Don't start twisting things mate to weasel your way out. Gby

    7. ok so you are saying SJF is not humble? because he says to accept him as your savior? and if he has never said that... then you are giving him the title of being your savior without ever hearing it from his own words??

      Mathew 10:40 Jesus appointed are being sent out to preach the Word of God and to show evidence they are able to perform miracles ect. When Jesus said "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me" its the same as telling all of us as disciples who are also preaching the Word of God.. you are doing it as well. Just look at the same verse but in Luke 10:1 were it includes 72 persons, and Jesus also said 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. and also gave them authority to heal the sick >>
      9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
      John 13:20 same goes for this verse.. here he even says "whomsoever" like the Samaritan woman John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman... and many believed because of her, and she was not an Apostle.

      They are not lies when I'm reading off the Bible. John 1

      King James Version (KJV)

      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (or Verb if you prefer)
      14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

      Ok now say it.. who was the Word?? (GOD)
      Ok now say it.. what did the Word become? (FLESH)
      Ok now say it.. who is the Flesh?? (JESUS)

      its all there.. I'm not adding anything its crystal clear.

      I think you are taught to think the Word(Verb) is something else, maybe that's why you are confused.. or reject this verse.. because it contradicts your teachings.

      don't worry my friend once you take in that God came in the Flesh as Jesus and how they are one is essence 1 Timothy will make sense to you along with other versus that confuse you.

    8. Correction>>>>
      Ok now say it.. who was the Word?? (GOD)
      Ok now say it.. what was the Word made to? (FLESH)
      Ok now say it.. who is the Flesh?? (JESUS)

      sorry became & made different meanings*

    9. The bible is not confusing, you're arguments however, are all over the place. I see confusion and repetition are a key strategy for your teachings. Now, lets stick to Matthew 10:40 and John 13:20, shall we, and we will touch the Lord's authorization of the 70 later on in detail. Oh and also, I would appreciate if you stop putting words in my mouth and stop with the presumptions. If you have q's just ask.

      Your answer to my question is: Well, he said it specifically to his 11 Apostles, but he really meant it for all of his followers.

      And then, you take the the word 'whomsover' and twist it to fit yiur agenda. Because YOU as we'll as I know that 'whomsoever' means whomsoever was to receive the Apostles. But you won't admit it.

      I see 2 things at work here,

      1. You don't believe in the Apostles of Jesus Christ. You believe they were unnecessary.

      2. You don't believe Jesus would send more.

      Why? Because it goes totally against everything you have been taught. I know this must be tough for you bro/sis, but I didn't teach, befriend, cared for, cleansed their feet, and then AUTHORIZED the Apostles once he would ascend to heaven. Why do you dismiss these to 2 Chapters? Why do you add to them?

    10. SJF will be the first to tell you that Jesus Christ is our only Lord and Savior. Stop putting words in our mouths. However, he will give thanks to God for blessing him as an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

      How can Jesus be God, and the mediator?

      Now, so you believe God is words?? You see, you can keep believing that, but you still didn't answer my question. How can Jesus be God, and the mediator?

    11. I can understand why you feel confused, that's because what you have been taught to reject any other belief outside your own..And yes I do repeat myself buy that's only because the versus that we are going over have a topic in common or cuz you don't understand me. Also I did ask you three questions. So I'm not putting words in your mouth if I'm asking you to clarify your statement. So please do answer them.

      And no "whomsoever" is not to fit "my agenda" its to fit the Word of God`s agenda. Yes we can say whomsoever includes the Apostles as well. I'm not denying that.

      1. Yes I do believe in the Apostles from the Bible of Jesus Christ. Yes I do believe they are important.

      2. Correct I don't believe Jesus will send more Apostles like his original.

    12. To your question on how can Jesus be both God and the mediator.
      Jesus was "God manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16)God became incarnate when He joined Himself with humanity in the conception of Jesus Christ. I think when you hear us say God is Jesus in the flesh.. You picture all of God in Jesus body.. Which in part is correct but you also have to keep in mind that God was still everywhere. When Jesus mission was completed He returned to His heavenly realm, but having lived in a human body of flesh, and knowing our every temptation He forever has that first-hand experience and understanding of the human condition. That is why Jesus is now "Mediator" between humanity and the deity of God.

      No I don't believe God is words.
      Now I want you to answer me something simple. Reply back writing the word to this verse John 1:1 and tell me what you take from this verse.. what does it mean to you?

    13. I am so glad that you believe in the Apostles of Jesus Christ, and that we can agree that's who Jesus was talking to in John 13 and Matthew 10. I kind of knew you believed in them because you cited versus from their epistles.
      I want to show you that Jesus would send more. It's in the bible. :)

      I understand what you're saying is that when Jesus said that he included ANYONE else who preached the Word of Christ. Does that include Jehova's Witness, Mormons, and Muslims (Muslims believe in Christ too)??

      The keyword in the verses I gave you is not whomsoever, it is I SEND, whomever Jesus sends.

      Oh, and I did answer your question about SJF, its just try to remember not believe everything you read, Chris Tarrant is a real life Judas. You know why? He goes to my church LLDM. And I will say that 85% of his blog is inaccurate. Sad right! How does he worship Christ?!??

      Thank you! I've been waiting for you to ask me that! I will show you that God is the Father of Christ, and Jesus is his only begotten son. Don't take offense, please, there is nothing new here but doctrine. I like our dialogue as long as it stays respectful, besides Jesus would be glad :)

      "having lived in a human body of flesh, and knowing our every temptation He forever has that first-hand experience and understanding of the human condition."

      At LLDM we know that God created us, he is the potter, we are the work if his hand, and therefore, knows the human condition. I understand you are saying, God was in Christ? I agree, they are one, in Spirit the same. I don't doubt Jesus' deity either, but why? Don't you have anything in common with your Father? Don't you have similar personality traits? Now I'm not saying Jesus and God have the same DNA, but Spiritually yes, that is why he says, "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father." Because they are the same in essence, in Spirit, and virtue, just like you are with your dad with everything he's taught you. Here are some point of references, I'm only going to use 4 but there are many more:

      John 3:16
      Matthew 3:17
      John 14:28
      John 13:16

      Would you agree that Jesus is the Messiah, the messenger of God? Because how can one be the sender and the messenger? Remember Jesus said "Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own authority, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him." So many times Jesus proclaims that his Father sent him, and so many times he cries out and prays to his Father in heaven. My question to you is, who sent him?

    14. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1 KJV). I will tell you what I take out of this verse. First, I think you are reading it like this "the word is God," when you should be reading it like this "God has the word," as something of possession. He told Moses what to write and he told him to speak, and Moses would be his mouth. Like that, God sent the word, the message, by way of his son, Christ the Messiah (John 8:26, 38).

      John 14:24 "24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

      John 12:49 "49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."

      John 7:16 "16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me."

      John 8:38 "38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father."

      John 17:8 "8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

      You see, God possesses the Word. The word for what? Life, eternal life. He gave that word to Christ.
      God is all powerful, all knowing, the creator, but when he wanted to build an ark, did he build it himself? No, he called upon a man, Noah. Friend I wish to show you that God is a Spirit and not simply Doctrine Genesis 1:2. Can you read that for me? What do you think it means?

    15. Hello! ok will reply to the first post in a bit. Been super busy with midterms.
      John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1 KJV).
      ok I read the verse just how it says it in the Bible "and the Word was God" to what you put that I read it "the word is God is pretty much the same since its just the words "was" and "is" same thing just different in past & present. But both saying Word=God. You say "God has the word" Like a possession and separating God & the Word. When no where in that verse does it say that God has the Word.. it says the Word was God. I'm not changing the words.

      So you say "He gave that word to Christ" so he gave his possession "the word" to Christ. Ok so if he "gave it" to Christ then why does it say in >> John 1:14 >> And the Word was made flesh... it says "made" it does not say handed over or given by God. It says made.

      That's why to me if the Word was God and then later in the verse it says and the Word was "made" flesh... that to me is incarnation. It became human "flesh" ... Jesus Christ. But I would like your view on this verse please. What does John 1:14 mean to you specifically in "And the Word was made flesh"

    16. Sure, I will answer your question with scripture, but first answer my question. Who is the "Father" Jesus speaks of so many times, and who sent him?

      I'll give you a hint: John 3:16.

      "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16, 17 KJV)

  20. Jesus a Apostle? Job where did you get that from? What bible verse?

    1. Hebrews 3:1. But I believe the question you are seeking my friend is, what is an Apostle?

    2. No.. you had mentioned Jesus is an Apostle back on May>>

      Job Portillo May 30, 2013 at 12:24 AM
      Dont you know, Jesus is an Apostle? The Apostle of God?

    3. I used to go to LLDM and They read everything out of context. They teach that the GOD the father is a spirit, and Jesus born of mary and the Holy spirit they dismiss it as if it was his conscience. They Don't teach the truth, that is why Job cannot grasp it. I thank the Lord for giving me the Spirit of Discernment because it was after I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit that The light penetrated their darkness. I started leaving notes on the pews that the church was misleading and brainwashing. They were taught that Jesus was an apostle. They dismiss the Holy Spirit as if it was just God talking to himself. And the church worships SJF. That is one church that practices Spiritual Abuse. Oh, yeah and their church members are the only ones that are inheriting The Kingdom of Heaven and the rest of the world, which they term "Gentiles" are going to Hell

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  22. Anyone reading this thread can decipher whether to believe Chris Tarrant's doctrine, or Jesus Christ's doctrine which he came to establish by way of his Apostles. If what Chris Tarrant says is true, then why did Jesus treat his Apostles so special above all other men? Why and how did Paul and Peter and the rest of the Apostles cast out demons, heal the sick, and forgive sins??

  23. Genesis 1:2 KJVAnd the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    First the earth was undesirable, there was darkness. So the Spirit of God started to make changes.

    Its also good to point out how Jesus Christ was also included in the beginning of the earth's creation. That just goes to say that the Holy Spirit, God, and Christ are One. A divine nature.Jesus Christ was not only human. He is a divine nature.

  24. "First the earth was undesirable, there was darkness. So the Spirit of God started to make changes."

    There, you said it! The SPIRIT of GOD, which means that God is a Spirit and not just "the Word". You see, God is an all powerful being, creator of the universe, alpha and omega. He possesses The Word. Why do you think John 1:1 uses the past tense 'Was'? And don't try to say 'what it meant to say is IS because it is the same thing'. No it is not the same thing. Nor you or anyone else can change or add to the bible.

    As for the second part of you're answer I don't know how you get that from Genesis 1:2. Seems like a huge leaping conclusion to me, please, let's try to stick to the subject.

  25. Verse that support Jesus was there "In the Beginning"

    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    this verse alone will clear up your confusion on what you call "leaping"

    I know God is a spirit, I never denied that. God is everywhere. And yes God is the alpha and omega, and you know who else said that they were?? Yep Jesus >>Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Among other verses that support that God and Jesus share the same characteristics. Again that goes to prove they are the same being.

    You have to understand that I know God is a Spirit and Jesus was Flesh (human) I know this. But what you are not getting is what I've been telling you. Which is that they are the same being. If there was another word to call "being" so you can better understand me I would use it. But that's just it, in our human world there are no vocabulary words to explain the greatness of God. They fall short. God had to manifest himself as Flesh (John 1:1) as Jesus . So that we can have Jesus a man that teaches us the way. Don't think that when we say God is Jesus we say that God was walking around in in Jesus body 24/7. No we don't think like that. God is everywhere and was in Jesus as well. Jesus was a man 100% but was God 100% as well. Do you not believe God is all powerful that he can manifest himself as anything he wants? He is a spirit after all right? Yes Jesus is God's son, and that's because he is a part of God's essence. I know its mind blowing. Its amazing just talking about how Great & Powerful our God is :)

    In order to understand me, you have to understand the doctrine of the Trinity. Since I know you have no desire of even trying to understand it, whatever I say will be gibberish to you. You don't allow yourself to have an open mind for the sake of knowledge of religion. I don't mean that as an insult. I just think that you don't want to learn other religion aside from your own.

  26. other vers. to support Jesus is God in the flesh
    Philippians 2:5-15

    King James Version (KJV)

    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (notice this one)

    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (here is our teacher at work, teaching us how to obey God)

    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (even above your savior SJF)

    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (note how it reads God the Father and not only God) Jesus (God the Son) God ( God the Father) goes to prove again they are the same being ... GOD

    1. Job where did you go? I see you reply in other topics but left this one? What happened?

  27. "There comes a time when silence is betrayal."
    --------- Martin Luther King

    “If I were to remain silent, I'd be guilty of complicity.”

    There aren't just bad people that commit genocide; we are all capable of it. It's our evolutionary history. ------- James Lovelock

    The Marriage of Church and State in Censoring Media Exposure of "Dangerous Religious Sect" Child Trafficking and Molestation

    A 4th generational East Austin, Texas child of family members of a Mexican / American Pentecostal cult "Light of the World Church / Iglesia La Luz Del Mundo" (LLDM) whose ministers have sex with children. Sexual assault victims have been waiting for "the big boys to handle it" for years.

    The "big boys" are too intimidated to regulate religion, calling victims "crazy" with "free will". When will the madness stop, and authorities regulate? Not one without the other.

    Similar to Warren Jeffs' Fundamental Latter Day Saints' (FLDS) history of sexual molestation of members own children, LLDM serves as a classic example of failed Texas State Child Support Services priorities with a chapter three blocks east of Austin Police Headquarters. *note the date of 1998. The "dangerous religious sect" has multiplied by locating "chapters" in every major city in the nation committing felony counts of sexual molestation, human trafficking, and governmental benefit institutional graft left unobstructed through censorship at the church and State level. . until now.

    Image may contain: one or more people
    . .and 49 others
    Veronica Espinoza Is this your new baby?!

    Scott Ogle nope

    Veronica Espinoza Oohhh.... I am visiting my parents in Dallas now. I am still waiting for your to visit me in NYC

    Scott Ogle I managed to receive two tickets with one maneuver crossing the state line boundary in the middle of the Lincoln tunnel not using a blinker. I thought either one, or the other State Patrolwomen, was out of jurisdiction when I finally stopped. Apparently not. I ain't goin' back. I don't think I ever paid them.

    Jesus Coronado
    Translated from Spanish
    Hey sorry but that is not the true church is satanic you
    See Original

    Scott Ogle Jesus Coronado

    Scott Ogle Jesus Coronado

    I don't understand who you are you take off your mask please
    Automatically Translated

    Jesus Coronado How are you

    Scott Ogle Well,here I am standing on a desk. We've been wondering why LLDM's directives, carried out through the Joaquin family's "unconditionales", has threatened to kill over the past 20 years prominent religious scholars Dr. Lourdes Arguelles, Moises Padilla, Dr. Jorge Erderly, Dr. Hugo Nutini, Dr. Patricia Fortuny, and now me for criticizing your church? Do you have any idea why people associated with hiding secrets, including "virgin offerings" of a CHURCH would be involved in determining whether someone should die? Isn't that the State's responsibility?
    Jesus Coronado
    So I had to either religious or anything but I've realized that you're satan

    Scott Ogle No, Jesus. That wasn't the question, for Christ's sake. Answer the question we asked you, hombre.

    Jesus Coronado Te prende te satanas escrito esta solo al señor servirás
    I'll turn on you satan written this just serve the Lord
    Automatically Translated

    8/4/16, 12:22am
    Sp Davide
    Yo te voy a enseñar a respetar payaso
    August 4